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The Great War (1914-1918) Forum

Remembered Today:

Cap Badge ?


Nic1983

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This is a photo of one of my relatives.  I haven't been able to find anything about his war record, as he has quite a common name ,and was hoping someone could tell me more from the photo ,then I would have more to go on. I know it's quite blurred , I'm just hoping someone will have an idea.36132845_PhotoofJWWatsonandBertWatson..jpg.c4f7d56622c5814613f5f47edf53ecb3.jpg

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Welcome to the forum. What’s his name, date and place of birth? The cap badge is I think Army Ordnance Corps, although it’s a blurred image. He has a good conduct stripe, and what looks to be 4 overseas chevrons. @FROGSMILE might be able to help more with the badge.

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It was taken late or post war. He has overseas service chevrons and a long service stripe. I’m afraid I can’t make out the cap badge.

Simon

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12 minutes ago, Michelle Young said:

Welcome to the forum. What’s his name, date and place of birth? The cap badge might be Ordnance Corps, although it’s a blurred image. He has a good conduct stripe, and what looks to be 4 overseas chevrons.

Well spotted.  I concur that it’s Army Ordnance Corps.  The good conduct badge (inverted stripe) indicates he’s completed between two and three years service without any disciplinary infringement, and the overseas stripes suggest service overseas 1915,16,17,18.

1FCA993C-EB2A-46AF-B070-325297E4F92A.jpeg

ECF71364-B847-4D21-A082-41EA1A2CF9F9.jpeg

Edited by FROGSMILE
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The soldier wears a wedding ring, I wonder if he married during service whether any detail would be on his wedding certificate or perhaps a child’s birth certificate stating father’s occupation.

Simon

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Thank you. Yes, Sorry , I should have put his name and where from.

His name is James William Watson, he was born in 1885,at  Brandon, County Durham

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This could be his medal index card (image courtesy Ancestry.co.uk) 

8973C93D-33A5-41C5-931B-7A68DBABC0BF.png

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As an AOC private he would have been a storage specialist.  This involved both inanimate objects such as ammunition, clothing, fuel and dry rations, but also livestock, such as pigs and cattle, that were then slaughtered by AOC butchers.  Men specialised accordingly.  It was then the responsibility of the Army Service Corps (ASC) to move batches from store forward, as supplies to sustain troops in the field.  Empties were returned for backloading and reuse.  As well as calculating volume and capacity stores, facilitators had to consider things like ambient temperature, protection from damp, and careful handling of volatile ammunition and propellant (there was special clothing and footwear for this).  Early forms of mechanical handling equipment were also used.  Highly trained and experienced men who were proficient with these skills were at the highest level senior warrant officers with the unique appointment of ‘Conductor’ (of stores), a level of responsibility akin to that of a junior officer.  Most of these bulk storage facilities were in the base area close to the channel ports and well away from artillery and small arms fire, although they were within aerial bombing range and some dumps were attacked during 1918.

Edited by FROGSMILE
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If the MIC is your relative, he first served in Egypt. Is there any family recognition of this? 

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He’s in tropical kit here, which is more likely for Egypt. 

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1 hour ago, Michelle Young said:

He’s in tropical kit here, which is more likely for Egypt. 

Yes he’s wearing ‘khaki drill’ (a stout cotton twill uniform) that was worn in the Middle East and India, along with a Wolseley helmet.  Typical dress for Egypt.

NB.  That’s a very substantial and relatively modern building behind him, typical of somewhere like Cairo, or Alexandria. 

Edited by FROGSMILE
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Absent Voters' Lists exist for many of the Co. Durham parliamentary divisions.

If you know his address, you may be able to confirm our findings:

http://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/soldiers/how-to-research-a-soldier/finding-soldiers-through-the-1918-absent-voters-lists/

Edit: For example, Brandon was in the Spennymoor constituency in 1918, so that might be the list to search first.

Edited by Dai Bach y Sowldiwr
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James William Watson 09252 AOC appears on the 1918 and Spring 1919 Absent Voter List for the P C of Durham, Sedgefield Division.

He appears under the Billy Row Polling District with the address 33 John Street South.

This might help you rule in/out whether this man is your relative

Regards

Russ

 

09252 AOC - 1.jpg

09252 AOC - 2.jpg

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This is very possibly John William Watson, born 27 January 1885. In the 1911 census at 33, Low John St., Meadowfield, Durham, 26, single, shoe maker. In the 1918 electoral roll "Watson, James William, 33 John Street North, NM" in the Parish of Brandon and Byshottles (South Ward). In the 1939 register at 33, John Street North, Meadowfield, date of birth as above, boot and shoe repairer, wife Mary Annie, date of birth 15 April 1893, unpaid domestic duties. No children listed.   

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Wow, that's brilliant. That's definitely him, that's his family's  address. He died there in 1969.

Thank you so much ,that's so helpful.

Thank you everyone for all your help.

Could I ask where you get the absent voters list from, please. As I'm looking for my Great grandad ,John Thomas ,who James was a brother of. I have no record of him in the war, no photos nothing. 

 

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His VM/BWM Medal Roll tells you he was discharged on 03/09/1919 - hence why he was on the Absent Voters Lists.

Regards

Russ

 

09252 - MR.jpg

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4 hours ago, Michelle Young said:

Welcome to the forum. What’s his name, date and place of birth? The cap badge is I think Army Ordnance Corps, although it’s a blurred image. He has a good conduct stripe, and what looks to be 4 overseas chevrons. @FROGSMILE might be able to help more with the badge.

Thank you 

10 minutes ago, RussT said:

His VM/BWM Medal Roll tells you he was discharged on 03/09/1919 - hence why he was on the Absent Voters Lists.

Regards

Russ

 

09252 - MR.jpg

Thank you 

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A quick look at surviving service records of men with near AOC numbers tells us he would have enlisted around 09/08/1915 - so it wasn't long before he was sent overseas i.e. on 15/09/1915

Here is the front page of the Attestation of the man who was allotted the next number 09253 just so you can see what it would have looked like.

PS: I've just spotted that this man was also a Shoe Maker !!

Regards

Russ

 

09253 - B2505.jpg

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@Nic1983

The subscription site Find My Past, shows that your man has 2 entries for medical treatment in the Admissions and Discharge books. Details:-

1st Entry -- 28th General Hospital

Regiment / unit: AOC

Battery: 58th

Reg No: 09252

Rank: Pte.

Name: Watson, W

Age: 32 years

Years of Service: 2 years 1 month (would indicate his enlistment as being July / August 1915)

Months with field force: 2 years

Disease: IRT Forearm (some one may be able to clarify from image attached)

Date of Admission: 28 August 1917

Date of transfer: 1 September 1917

To: No 4 C D (convalescent depot??)

 

2nd Entry -- 28th General Hospital

Regiment / unit: AOC

Battery: 58th

Reg No: 09252

Rank: Pte.

Name: Watson, W

Age: 33 years

Years of Service: 2 years 10 months (would indicate his enlistment as being July / August 1915)

Months with field force: 2 years 5 months

Disease: NYD Pyrexia (NYD = Not Yet Diagnosed) (Pyrexia = raised body temperature; fever) 

Date of Admission: 24 June 1918

Date of transfer: 29 June 1918

To: No 82 General Hospital

 

Images attached courtesy of Find My Past

 

Watson admission and discharge.jpg

Watson admission and discharge 2.jpg

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30 minutes ago, Nic1983 said:

Could I ask where you get the absent voters list from, please. As I'm looking for my Great grandad ,John Thomas ,who James was a brother of. I have no record of him in the war, no photos nothing. 

Follow the link I posted earlier:

http://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/soldiers/how-to-research-a-soldier/finding-soldiers-through-the-1918-absent-voters-lists/

You can access it also through Find My Past (sub required):

https://www.findmypast.co.uk/articles/britain-absent-voters-constituency-list

 

47 minutes ago, RussT said:

James William Watson 09252 AOC appears on the 1918 and Spring 1919 Absent Voter List for the P C of Durham, Sedgefield Division.

He appears under the Billy Row Polling District

Not the Spennymoor division then?

 

 

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I'm ignorant of almost all things AOC and RAMC, but I think there's maybe a Middle East connection because 28 GH was in Salonika; I think 82nd GH was immediately post-war based in Constantinople (at least, it seems to have been in Dec 1918).

 

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Allan1892 said:

Disease: IRT Forearm (some one may be able to clarify from image attached)

ICT

Infection/inflammation of connective tissue.

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21 minutes ago, Dai Bach y Sowldiwr said:

Follow the link I posted earlier:

http://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/soldiers/how-to-research-a-soldier/finding-soldiers-through-the-1918-absent-voters-lists/

You can access it also through Find My Past (sub required):

https://www.findmypast.co.uk/articles/britain-absent-voters-constituency-list

 

Not the Spennymoor division then?

 

 

Thank you .Yes, he would been on the same page as his brother James., as he lived in Langley Moor too.     Thank you again for all the help.

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Boot and Shoemaker/Repairer was an AOC trade, so that fits for a wartime enlistee being placed where he can be of best use.

Edited by FROGSMILE
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