Medal Engravements

[gouldcx]

Hi all,

I am new to this. Recently acquired a DFC medal with 1918 E II R on the reverse. Would E II R be on a medal of this year be genuine? I also have other medals engraved and with medal record to validate the timelines. If genuine where can i get info to validate against the other medals? Apologies if these are silly questions.

Thanks

[RNCVR]

Appears to be a miniature DFC to me. 1918 represented the date of origin of the cross its on all of the various reigns crosses.

Miniatures were privately purchased, they were not officially issued to recipients, so you dont have to be concerned about fakes, of which there are many.

[gouldcx]

Thanks for the insight.

[RNCVR]

If you decide to purchase a full size DFC, get it checked out on this Forum or the British Medal Forum prior to paying for it as there are many & varied fakes on the market & online auction sites.

[gouldcx]

The medals were acquired due to a family friend passing here in Ireland but his wife is also deceased to find further info on them. I have a medal card but my knowledge deciphering it is non existent. 

Details from medals: S-37280 CPL.W.YARDY.  RIF.BRIG.

Can people have more than 1 medal card or is it more likely that someone has the same name.

Are there specific areas here to help find more detail to his time in war?

WO-372-22-107842.pdf

[RNCVR]

Think two different YARDYS as two different Regimental Numbers - William was Rifle Brigade (Corporal) entitled to the British War & Victory medals.

William H. was initially RE (Royal Engineers) & the RFA (Driver). He was entitled to the 1914-15 star BWM & VM.

 

@FROGSMILE  might be able to assist you further as my specialty is not reading/interpreting Medal Cards. he will pick up on this & chime in soon.

[FROGSMILE]

1 hour ago, gouldcx said:

Hi all,

I am new to this. Recently acquired a DFC medal with 1918 E II R on the reverse. Would E II R be on a medal of this year be genuine? I also have other medals engraved and with medal record to validate the timelines. If genuine where can i get info to validate against the other medals? Apologies if these are silly questions.

Thanks

Someone else posted about this recently. The 1918 relates to the institution date of the DFC at the end of WW1.  The cypher then indicates who is or was on the throne when the specific award was made to the officer concerned.

[FROGSMILE]

1 hour ago, gouldcx said:

The medals were acquired due to a family friend passing here in Ireland but his wife is also deceased to find further info on them. I have a medal card but my knowledge deciphering it is non existent. 

Details from medals: S-37280 CPL.W.YARDY.  RIF.BRIG.

Can people have more than 1 medal card or is it more likely that someone has the same name.

Are there specific areas here to help find more detail to his time in war?

WO-372-22-107842.pdf 1.26 MB · 9 downloads

Occasionally two medal cards are indicated to the same individual through error, or because a man used an assumed name and cards were issued under both names.

Medals to men with identical names are not uncommon and so you have to use genealogical skills to identify your man via dates of birth and home towns and trace his enlistment.  Unfortunately the majority of individual service records were destroyed in WW2 bombing of storage in London and medal index cards only record the regiments that men joined overseas.  Earlier regiments back in Britain, in whose uniforms and insignia men were often photographed, can thus go unrecognised and cause confusion.  It was common for a man to serve in several regiments/corps over the course of the war.

Recipients details are recorded on the rim of circular medals and the backs of other shapes such as stars.  These include regimental serial numbers that at that time changed when a man moved between one regiment and another.  You need to match that serial number** on the medal with a serial number on the index card itself (**which might be one of several if he stayed in service long enough to be renumbered during reorganisation, or move between a number of units).

The absence of any star medal for the rifle brigade man indicates he did not arrive in France and Flanders until after 1915.  The numerals next to his medal details relate to the page and file reference where his award is listed with fellow regimental soldiers in the linked medal roll (a long list of mens names associated with the medal type concerned).  Someone clever like @kenf48might be able to assess from his regimental serial number when he enlisted.

Edited 15 June , 2022 by FROGSMILE

[gouldcx]

Excellent info, really appreciate the info.

[Matlock1418]

1 hour ago, gouldcx said:

Details from medals: S-37280 CPL.W.YARDY.  RIF.BRIG.

From a pension card at WFA we can see Cpl. William YARDY, S/37280, Rifle Brigade was transferred to the Army Z Reserve [essentially demobilised to civilian life] and claimed a disability pension.  The two acts were not mutually-exclusive.  

We can't see when, for what or how his pension claim progressed but the card also, rather helpfully, gives what appears to have been his likely earlier Training Reserve number TR/13/18315

See LLT for these types of Reserves https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/soldiers/a-soldiers-life-1914-1918/enlisting-into-the-army/british-army-reserves-and-reservists

M

Edited 15 June , 2022 by Matlock1418
typo

[gouldcx]

Thank you all for the input on this.

[FROGSMILE]

9 hours ago, gouldcx said:

Thank you all for the input on this.

If you can track down the ‘medal roll’ connected with (linked to) the medal index card you’ve posted, it will usually show the numbered battalion of the Rifle Brigade with which Yardy served.  From there you will be able to trace the movements and basic activities of the battalion as a whole via its ‘war diary’ (an official document) assuming it is one of the very many that survive. 

Edited 16 June , 2022 by FROGSMILE

[RaySearching]

2nd Bn Rifle Brigade

 

War Diarys Here

 

Ray

[kenf48]

19 hours ago, gouldcx said:

Can people have more than 1 medal card or is it more likely that someone has the same name.

The PDF you posted earlier is from the National Archives. They were originally copied six to a page hence two soldiers named  Vardy on the same page.  The index cards are free to access on Ancestry UK and available singly but on this occasion the work has been done.

18 hours ago, FROGSMILE said:

f48might be able to assess from his regimental serial number when he enlisted.

You need basic genealogical information but I'm guessing he was a young single man aged eighteen and conscripted shortly after his eighteenth birthday.  I note you are in Ireland where conscription was not applied.  As has already been pointed out no 14-15 Star means he did not serve in a theatre of war prior to 31.12. 1915.  Assuming Pte Vardy was resident in the UK the fact he was posted to the Training Reserve means he was either on home service prior to the creation of the Reserve in September 1916 or he was called up after that date.  

I suspect the latter.

Surviving service records  and Soldiers Died in Great War suggest he was posted to the Training Reserve around the summer of 1917.

 I believe he was in a group of men posted to the 53rd Young Soldier Battalion of the King's Royal Rifle Corps in December 1917. On attaining the age of nineteen this group were posted to the 5th Battalion Rifle Brigade and on the 4th March 1918 embarked for France.  On arrival at the Infantry Base Depot on the 5th March 1918 they were posted to the 2nd Battalion The Rifle Brigade and joined the Battalion in the field on the 7th March 1918. Just in time for the German Spring Offensive on the 21st March where the Battalion suffered heavy losses from the 23rd March.

The war diary shows that 86 other ranks joined the Battalion on the 8th March and a further 108 on the 12th.  I suspect he was in the earlier draft.

I suggest you search the Long Long Trail website link top right where you will find further information on researching a soldier, the Regiment, the Training Reserve and YS Battalions.

There are a few candidates for William Vardy b. 1899/1900 in the English records who would fit the above hypothesis.

[FROGSMILE]

5 hours ago, RaySearching said:

2nd Bn Rifle Brigade

 

War Diarys Here

 

Ray

Thanks Ray, that’s very helpful.

[FROGSMILE]

2 hours ago, kenf48 said:

The PDF you posted earlier is from the National Archives. They were originally copied six to a page hence two soldiers named  Vardy on the same page.  The index cards are free to access on Ancestry UK and available singly but on this occasion the work has been done.

You need basic genealogical information but I'm guessing he was a young single man aged eighteen and conscripted shortly after his eighteenth birthday.  I note you are in Ireland where conscription was not applied.  As has already been pointed out no 14-15 Star means he did not serve in a theatre of war prior to 31.12. 1915.  Assuming Pte Vardy was resident in the UK the fact he was posted to the Training Reserve means he was either on home service prior to the creation of the Reserve in September 1916 or he was called up after that date.  

I suspect the latter.

Surviving service records  and Soldiers Died in Great War suggest he was posted to the Training Reserve around the summer of 1917.

 I believe he was in a group of men posted to the 53rd Young Soldier Battalion of the King's Royal Rifle Corps in December 1917. On attaining the age of nineteen this group were posted to the 5th Battalion Rifle Brigade and on the 4th March 1918 embarked for France.  On arrival at the Infantry Base Depot on the 5th March 1918 they were posted to the 2nd Battalion The Rifle Brigade and joined the Battalion in the field on the 7th March 1918. Just in time for the German Spring Offensive on the 21st March where the Battalion suffered heavy losses from the 23rd March.

The war diary shows that 86 other ranks joined the Battalion on the 8th March and a further 108 on the 12th.  I suspect he was in the earlier draft.

I suggest you search the Long Long Trail website link top right where you will find further information on researching a soldier, the Regiment, the Training Reserve and YS Battalions.

There are a few candidates for William Vardy b. 1899/1900 in the English records who would fit the above hypothesis.

Thank you Ken, I always enjoy reading your assessments.  They give me a very firm mental picture of how things would have been on the ground for the man concerned within the Army training and administrative ‘system’, whose basic principles and routines hadn’t changed that much during my own service.  Even those who completed National Service (1950s-60s) would be able to identify with it.  Your time spent drawing it all up is appreciated.  From what you’ve described I’m assuming he must have been living in England when registered and subsequently called forward.

Edited 16 June , 2022 by FROGSMILE

[kenf48]

14 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said:

Thank you Ken, I always enjoy reading your assessments.

Very kind just hoping he's eighteen 

[JMB1943]

On 16/06/2022 at 07:19, kenf48 said:

On arrival at the Infantry Base Depot on the 5th March 1918 they were posted to the 2nd Battalion The Rifle Brigade and joined the Battalion in the field on the 7th March 1918. Just in time for the German Spring Offensive on the 21st March where the Battalion suffered heavy losses from the 23rd March.

The war diary shows that 86 other ranks joined the Battalion on the 8th March and a further 108 on the 12th.  I suspect he was in the earlier draft.

Kenf48,

I was under the impression that drafts into France would undergo a week of training in trench warfare at the Base Depot, prior to dispatch to their battalion.

If this is the case, would he not more likely be a member of the 108-man draft of March 12th?

Regards,

JMB

[kenf48]

4 hours ago, JMB1943 said:

Kenf48,

I was under the impression that drafts into France would undergo a week of training in trench warfare at the Base Depot, prior to dispatch to their battalion.

If this is the case, would he not more likely be a member of the 108-man draft of March 12th?

Regards,

JMB

No way of knowing, not going to quibble over a couple of days, it appears some of them from the draft from the KRRC went to the 13th Bn. RB.Each draft arrived when the Battalion was out of the line.

The length of time at the IBD was two weeks prior to 1917 - the phrase, “for the good of the service” would apply. In the aftermath of March 21st it could be as little as three days in other words as with everything Great War there are no certainties.