Netheravon Aerodrome - Efforts at Conservation?

[Buffnut453]

I had the great fortune to visit Netheravon Airfield yesterday to complete a tandem parachute jump with the Army Parachute Association.  It's been over 20 years since I was at Netheravon and, while I thoroughly enjoyed the jump, I have to say the physical infrastructure on the domestic site is in a sorry state of repair.

Here are a couple of photos showing the current condition of the former Warrant Officers' and Sergeants' Mess (during the Great War this building was the Institute, presumably where student pilots undertook some ground school lessons).  The second shows one of the barrack blocks nearby, but all are in a similarly poor condition.

Given the historic nature of Netheravon and the listed status of many buildings on the site, I'd expect them to be maintained.  Alas, that seems not to be the case.  The black paint is peeling from the wooden beams and the whole place feels like it's being left to fall down.  Given the asbestos warnings on many of the buildings, I suspect the remediation costs are too great and so the MOD is stuck in a quandary of not being able to use the buildings while, at the same time, being unable/unwilling to pay for the asbestos to be removed.  

Do the GWF cognoscenti know of any efforts to conserve these historic buildings or will we simply have to watch them crumble into dust?  

Edited 13 June , 2022 by Buffnut453

[FROGSMILE]

10 hours ago, Buffnut453 said:

I had the great fortune to visit Netheravon Airfield yesterday to complete a tandem parachute jump with the Army Parachute Association.  It's been over 20 years since I was at Netheravon and, while I thoroughly enjoyed the jump, I have to say the physical infrastructure on the domestic site is in a sorry state of repair.

Here are a couple of photos showing the current condition of the former Warrant Officers' and Sergeants' Mess (during the Great War this building was the Institute, presumably where student pilots undertook some ground school lessons).  The second shows one of the barrack blocks nearby, but all are in a similarly poor condition.

Given the historic nature of Netheravon and the listed status of many buildings on the site, I'd expect them to be maintained.  Alas, that seems not to be the case.  The black paint is peeling from the wooden beams and the whole place feels like it's being left to fall down.  Given the asbestos warnings on many of the buildings, I suspect the remediation costs are too great and so the MOD is stuck in a quandary of not being able to use the buildings while, at the same time, being unable/unwilling to pay for the asbestos to be removed.  

Do the GWF cognoscenti know of any efforts to conserve these historic buildings or will we simply have to watch them crumble into dust?  

Very interested to read your post and see the photographs, but like you desperately sad.  By a pure fluke of coincidence I was based twice at Netheravon, the first time between 1980-1990, at the old WW1 cavalry school established by Baden-Powell, and then more relevantly at Airfield Camp between 1997-2000, when I lived in the officers’ mess complex whose main building famously has the large RFC wings sign above its main entrance.  It was a wonderful place to live for a WW1 enthusiast as you will understand and in my spare time I led an effort to add period pieces to the mess obtained from the Imperial War and RAF museums.  The latter allowed us to hang oil paintings on permanent loan for which I wrote small histories to be suspended beneath, and the IWM loaned us large propellors as features to hang on the high walls and ceilings.  I was deeply disappointed years later (having moved on from Aviation Branch) to learn that the army withdrew from the camp apart from the parachute association.

To answer your question more specifically even in the 1990s we were deeply aware that things were deteriorating and several parts of the camp were no longer used for accommodation because of the asbestos becoming unstable.  Other buildings continued, but with regular inspections to check for deterioration.  Unfortunately the listing of the buildings only places limited obligations on the MOD, and you have correctly identified that even then it was the cost of removing asbestos that proved insolvable.  The MOD simply were not prepared to underwrite the enormous cost.  There only obligation is to maintain the buildings sufficiently to keep out rain, which relates to windows and roofs only.  The inside can continue to deteriorate and nothing will be done unless some external pressure is brought to bear and given other pressures on the defence estimates that simply isn’t going to happen.  The only thing that is keeping the site open and the land unsold is the parachute association and the fact that general officers visiting training on the plain use it as a convenient place to land their helicopters.  If that changes then the site will be sold off just as the nearby site, and one time army headquarters at Upavon, has been.

Thank you for posting, it has been poignant to look back and recall things there.

Edited 13 June , 2022 by FROGSMILE

[Buffnut453]

2 hours ago, FROGSMILE said:

Very interested to read your post and see the photographs, but like you desperately sad.  By a pure fluke of coincidence I was based twice at Netheravon, the first time between 1980-1990, at the old WW1 cavalry school established by Baden-Powell, and then more relevantly at Airfield Camp between 1997-2000, when I lived in the officers’ mess complex whose main building famously has the large RFC wings sign above its main entrance.  It was a wonderful place to live for a WW1 enthusiast as you will understand and in my spare time I led an effort to add period pieces to the mess obtained from the Imperial War and RAF museums.  The latter allowed us to hang oil paintings on permanent loan for which I wrote small histories to be suspended beneath, and the IWM loaned us large propellors as features to hang on the high walls and ceilings.  I was deeply disappointed years later (having moved on from Aviation Branch) to learn that the army withdrew from the camp apart from the parachute association.

To answer your question more specifically even in the 1990s we were deeply aware that things were deteriorating and several parts of the camp were no longer used for accommodation because of the asbestos becoming unstable.  Other buildings continued, but with regular inspections to check for deterioration.  Unfortunately the listing of the buildings only places limited obligations on the MOD, and you have correctly identified that even then it was the cost of removing asbestos that proved insolvable.  The MOD simply were not prepared to underwrite the enormous cost.  There only obligation is to maintain the buildings sufficiently to keep out rain, which relates to windows and roofs only.  The inside can continue to deteriorate and nothing will be done unless some external pressure is brought to bear and given other pressures on the defence estimates that simply isn’t going to happen.  The only thing that is keeping the site open and the land unsold is the parachute association and the fact that general officers visiting training on the plain use it as a convenient place to land their helicopters.  If that changes then the site will be sold off just as the nearby site, and one time army headquarters at Upavon, has been.

Thank you for posting, it has been poignant to look back and recall things there.

Thanks for the post.  We were probably at Netheravon around the same time, although my visit was very brief.  I, too, stayed in the Officers' Mess and found it very evocative.

Given that the MOD can't/won't foot the bill to remove the asbestos, I'm wondering if funding couldn't be obtained from other sources (National Lottery, English Heritage etc) to restore at least part of the site.  I think the Officers' Mess, Institute (latterly the Warrant Officers' and Sergeants' Mess), and original Sergeants' Mess would make a good starting point, and could be readily adapted to tell the story of the site and used for other purposes.  The Officers' Mess alone would make a great venue for weddings and conferences, and perhaps providing accommodation for visitors to the area.  

There could be an entire display about James McCudden VC given he stayed at Netheravon during his service with 1 Sqn as a an aircraft fitter.  The role of Netheravon in the concentration and build-up of the RFC (several squadrons were formed there including at least 4 that are still operational: 11, 12, 20 and 32 Sqns) could be readily told, to include histories of those squadrons providing recruitment material for the RAF, not to mention the site's association with the Army Air Corps which ensures the Army gets a look-in.  Then there's the WW2 years and with parachuting and glider towing in preparation for D-Day.

The biggest problem, apart from the asbestos, is accessibility to the site: it's not easy to reach and there's not much else near it.  I suspect that would scare off potential investors and make it a tough sell.  However, the APA runs a pretty busy schedule at the operational end of the airfield.  There were parachute jumps throughout the time we were there and lots of people milling about...and, apparently, it was a quiet day because the winds were too strong for trainee parachutists.  It seems to me that there's a pretty solid level of activity already at the airfield that could be expanded to draw in more visitors and perhaps make the site a truly going concern.  

I'm probably being over-optimistic about the potential of the site since, clearly, it would take a lot of investment to keep it running.  However, the thought of those historic buildings being left to rot away is heartbreaking.  

Edited 13 June , 2022 by Buffnut453

[Buffnut453]

One other thought…ensuring that the roofs and windows are secure won’t be sufficient to  protect the buildings. If the MOD doesn’t keep the wooden structure painted (and they clearly aren’t doing that) then the wood will eventually rot and the buildings will collapse.

[FROGSMILE]

On 13/06/2022 at 22:53, Buffnut453 said:

Thanks for the post.  We were probably at Netheravon around the same time, although my visit was very brief.  I, too, stayed in the Officers' Mess and found it very evocative.

Given that the MOD can't/won't foot the bill to remove the asbestos, I'm wondering if funding couldn't be obtained from other sources (National Lottery, English Heritage etc) to restore at least part of the site.  I think the Officers' Mess, Institute (latterly the Warrant Officers' and Sergeants' Mess), and original Sergeants' Mess would make a good starting point, and could be readily adapted to tell the story of the site and used for other purposes.  The Officers' Mess alone would make a great venue for weddings and conferences, and perhaps providing accommodation for visitors to the area.  

There could be an entire display about James McCudden VC given he stayed at Netheravon during his service with 1 Sqn as a an aircraft fitter.  The role of Netheravon in the concentration and build-up of the RFC (several squadrons were formed there including at least 4 that are still operational: 11, 12, 20 and 32 Sqns) could be readily told, to include histories of those squadrons providing recruitment material for the RAF, not to mention the site's association with the Army Air Corps which ensures the Army gets a look-in.  Then there's the WW2 years and with parachuting and glider towing in preparation for D-Day.

The biggest problem, apart from the asbestos, is accessibility to the site: it's not easy to reach and there's not much else near it.  I suspect that would scare off potential investors and make it a tough sell.  However, the APA runs a pretty busy schedule at the operational end of the airfield.  There were parachute jumps throughout the time we were there and lots of people milling about...and, apparently, it was a quiet day because the winds were too strong for trainee parachutists.  It seems to me that there's a pretty solid level of activity already at the airfield that could be expanded to draw in more visitors and perhaps make the site a truly going concern.  

I'm probably being over-optimistic about the potential of the site since, clearly, it would take a lot of investment to keep it running.  However, the thought of those historic buildings being left to rot away is heartbreaking.  

I understand exactly what you mean about the tantalising idea of an army aviation heritage centre, but unfortunately Middle Wallop has already determinedly taken on that mantle via the museum there, which pitches itself as a rival to the RAF and RN equivalents, so there would be some resistance from there.

As I understood it when we discussed such matters back then, albeit informally as we are now, it was pointed out that lottery money cannot be used (forbidden by charter) to prop up or refurbish buildings still owned by the MOD and on land still retained by the MOD.  In other words the MOD would have to sell it all off and someone want to sponsor the whole idea with some personal weight behind it.  Apparently there’s some issue also about the MOD having responsibility to clean the site if they sell it, which makes me wonder what they did at nearby Upavon, which also had some similar asbestos laden original buildings, including Lord Trenchard’s old office, which had been made a feature with original furniture and other artefacts when I last saw it. 

As you’ve pertinently pointed out it’s also not in a good location with only narrow road access from the main A345 trunk route and sleepy villages would not take kindly to the traffic.  There’s already local resistance to a nearby museum proposal for Artillery Firepower that has been moved from Woolwich Arsenal, with planning sought to reposition it in the old cavalry school riding ring building (listed) and anti-tank division complex (unlisted) nearby.

 I agree with you too about the many interesting facts associated with the site including the McCudden connection, and the various squadrons formed there.  As part of the initiative I mentioned for linking the mess with RFC artefacts I drew up short, but detailed squadron histories, for each of the squadrons based there (personalities and aircraft types), and typed them up on an aviation branch hard drive in the late 90s.  Years later I can recall feeling a bit miffed when they turned up on the internet, where they presumably still sit somewhere, although it doesn’t bother me the slightest bit now.  

Edited 17 June , 2022 by FROGSMILE

[FROGSMILE]

On 14/06/2022 at 11:07, Buffnut453 said:

One other thought…ensuring that the roofs and windows are secure won’t be sufficient to  protect the buildings. If the MOD doesn’t keep the wooden structure painted (and they clearly aren’t doing that) then the wood will eventually rot and the buildings will collapse.

The buildings wooden frames were already rotting and when the quartermaster had them surveyed (via the MOD Property Manager) it was determined by the inspecting engineer that it was predominantly (to a significant degree) the rigidly upright and sandwiched asbestos panels holding the buildings up, with the wooden frame structure in between crumbling away.  As you have accurately surmised, it’s the wood that is the weak point structurally speaking, not the asbestos.  It’s a terrible paradox and as matters stand it seems that there’s neither the money, nor the will to solve it. 

Edited 15 June , 2022 by FROGSMILE

[Buffnut453]

19 hours ago, FROGSMILE said:

The buildings wooden frames were already rotting and when the quartermaster had them surveyed (via the MOD Property Manager) it was determined by the inspecting engineer that it was predominantly (to a significant degree) the rigidly upright and sandwiched asbestos panels holding the buildings up, with the wooden frame structure in between crumbling away.  As you have accurately surmised, it’s the wood that is the weak point structurally speaking, not the asbestos.  It’s a terrible paradox and as matters stand it seems that there’s neither the money, nor the will to solve it. 

I think it will take some carefully choreographed plotting, probably with some influential advocacy from somewhere (Peter Jackson perhaps), to work a drug deal where the MOD relinquishes the old domestic site while retaining the hangars, operational airfield, and more modern facilities.  Alas, there doesn't seem to be any interest in such a chain of events unless the issue is raised by those interested in the topic.  

[FROGSMILE]

1 hour ago, Buffnut453 said:

I think it will take some carefully choreographed plotting, probably with some influential advocacy from somewhere (Peter Jackson perhaps), to work a drug deal where the MOD relinquishes the old domestic site while retaining the hangars, operational airfield, and more modern facilities.  Alas, there doesn't seem to be any interest in such a chain of events unless the issue is raised by those interested in the topic.  

I think that sums up the situation very succinctly.

[Moonraker]

On 13/06/2022 at 10:35, Buffnut453 said:

I had the great fortune to visit Netheravon Airfield yesterday to complete a tandem parachute jump with the Army Parachute Association.  It's been over 20 years since I was at Netheravon and, while I thoroughly enjoyed the jump, I have to say the physical infrastructure on the domestic site is in a sorry state of repair.

Here are a couple of photos showing the current condition of the former Warrant Officers' and Sergeants' Mess (during the Great War this building was the Institute, presumably where student pilots undertook some ground school lessons).  The second shows one of the barrack blocks nearby, but all are in a similarly poor condition ...

 

 

Very interesting thread; thanks to those who've contributed to it.  On a tiny pedantic note, an "institute" c1914 was not usually an educational facility, but one that offered welfare and shopping facilities, often provided by the YMCA or church organisations.

See this 1924 map

I think that the building Buffnut refers to may be marked on the left, close to "tumuli". I also think that the "Regimental Institute" shown on the eastern end was provided by the unit based at a camp. (I note that there is another "institute" close by.)

[Buffnut453]

4 hours ago, Moonraker said:

Very interesting thread; thanks to those who've contributed to it.  On a tiny pedantic note, an "institute" c1914 was not usually an educational facility, but one that offered welfare and shopping facilities, often provided by the YMCA or church organisations.

See this 1924 map

I think that the building Buffnut refers to may be marked on the left, close to "tumuli". I also think that the "Regimental Institute" shown on the eastern end was provided by the unit based at a camp. (I note that there is another "institute" close by.)

Hi Moonraker,

Many thanks for the correction.  I learn something new every time I visit GWF.

The building I was referring to is shown as the "Regimental Institute" on the 1924 map.  It was later the WOs' and Sgts' Mess, and it still wears that title.  However, an annotated aerial image of the airfield dated March 1918 just labels the building as "Institute."

Since there didn't appear to be an Airmen's Mess, I wonder if the Institute plugged that gap in terms of providing for the junior enlisted?

Many thanks,
Mark

[FROGSMILE]

On 17/06/2022 at 23:13, Buffnut453 said:

Hi Moonraker,

Many thanks for the correction.  I learn something new every time I visit GWF.

The building I was referring to is shown as the "Regimental Institute" on the 1924 map.  It was later the WOs' and Sgts' Mess, and it still wears that title.  However, an annotated aerial image of the airfield dated March 1918 just labels the building as "Institute."

Since there didn't appear to be an Airmen's Mess, I wonder if the Institute plugged that gap in terms of providing for the junior enlisted?

Many thanks,
Mark

Hello Mark, I’m pretty sure your closing statement is correct.  The “regimental institute” was quite widely speaking during that era the building that in more modern times became known as the NAAFI club**.  Sometimes there was a separate room within set aside as the Corporals club, and in larger camps there would sometimes be a separate but usually quite small building for that latter purpose.

**having both, lived in airfield camp for two years, and taken great interest in its history, I can confirm that the regimental institute facility was moved to a more modern, NAAFI building on the opposite side of the main road running through the camp post war.  The old building was then taken over as the Sergeants’ Mess (only much later being known as WOs’ & Sgts’ Mess).
 

Edited 25 June , 2022 by FROGSMILE