stevenbecker Posted 12 June , 2022 Share Posted 12 June , 2022 Mates, An inquiry came in by a family wanting to find the grave of their relation killed on the 8 Nov 1917 There is a lot of detail in his file on where he was buried but the grave was lost during the war and he was never recovered. Quite comen on that front as grave & markers were taken by the local Arabs to rob and plunder The family still want to look for his grave but don't know where to look other then that given but local Israilis say he was not there? I have give some back ground and sent them to the CWGC to see what they may have I also possed the idea that one of unknowns buried at Beersheba War Cemetery maybe him, if those could be checked against what the CWGC has? But I am at a loss to follow up here? I have shown he was in Lt AD Mackellar's Troop of A Sqn 10 LHR (possibly A or D troops) MacKellar was also wounded during the fighting, (detailed in Nev's and Gill'ys book on the 10th LHR) but when that was is unknown when Cochrane was killed in the same action? Any ideas S.B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aconnolly Posted 12 June , 2022 Share Posted 12 June , 2022 Steve Tough one as the correspondence in his file in 1923 strongly implies War Graves teams did not locate his original grave. However, it is possible I guess that he was found as an "unknown" near but not necessarily precisely where the chaplain listed the grave. The coordinates are at best approximate I'd suggest regarding the distance (1.5 miles) so could the Imperial War Graves team have found remains without ID and not linked it to Trooper Cochrane? It would be nice to think he is one of the 66 unknown in the Beersheba War Cemetery. Various smaller cemeteries were amalgamated by the Commission so perhaps he'd already been exhumed as an unknown, buried in a smaller cemetery, then moved? That scenario could have meant the offical record of "grave not found" was not accurate?? Andrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 12 June , 2022 Share Posted 12 June , 2022 Andy, Yes its what I was thinking. I found many LH men suffered the same problem of being buried but there graves lost. When you concider that these were not destroyed like those on the western Front then where are the bodies? I looked into a number buried together at Ammen from the Camel Corps, where half were recovered while the others were not? I think it maybe to late now to go looking? S.B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aconnolly Posted 13 June , 2022 Share Posted 13 June , 2022 Steve - we probably need to compare map of the time with today - if it's undeveloped land there may still be a chance. Long shot but you never know. Be a wonderful moment if he or others were found. Trouble with a wadi as a burial site is probably flooding and erosion- at least that is the case in parts of the Western Desert - I'm not sure of this is an issue in this part of the Middle East. AC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 13 June , 2022 Share Posted 13 June , 2022 Mate, I recieved a note to say the family have got an Isralili research Group to look into his burial, while so far they have found nothing, so they are chasing any other info My closing his Sqn and Troop gives better insight into what he was doing that day, as the Regt was spread over some ground, as the Bde moved on Huj with the Anzac Mounted Div. And as he was buried by the Chaplain near Jemmameh and since at the end of the day the Bde watered there and stayed around there and Huj for the next day. Of cause how built up is it now? I went looking on a Google maps but the names have changed and the country is still open so so its possible to find him? S.B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aconnolly Posted 13 June , 2022 Share Posted 13 June , 2022 Steve - If I've read it right the 10th LH war diary has him as only kia that day so definitely an isolated grave. AC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 13 June , 2022 Share Posted 13 June , 2022 Mate, Yes he was the only man killed in the Regt. While numbers were lost in other Regts as we chased the Ottomans from Sheria to Huj fighting a number of actions as we did And major action was by the Brits at Huj but we record a number of guns taken during the advance. I notice a number of Regts who buried men also had mixed results with some buried together where the odd man.s bodies disappeared. The War Dairy mentions A Sqn advance alone side the 5 LHR, now a check finds these killed 8 Nov 1917; BLACKSHAW William Eric 5759 Dvr 2 LH Bde Trn 5R (6Co AASC) remain Egypt tos C Troop CSqn/5 LHR (5759a) 3-16 reported killed by MG in fighting at Kirbet Um Batich near Sheria buried on battlefield near Kirbet Um Batich by chaplain Mullins reburied Beersheba War Cemetery Palestine brothers Sydney Lt 17Bn and Oswald AASC ROSS Wilfred Wallace 353 Sig 05 LHR C Sqn WIA 20-5-15 minor shrapnel reported 3 wounded when shelled near Monash Gully moving to No 3 sect evac to hosp Malta (dysentry) 9-15 to (king george) hosp London UK 9-15 (G) to AB Tidworth Uk 1-17 to 2 LHTR 4-17 rtn 7-17 killed in fighting near Wadi el Hesy and Tel el Nejila near Huj buried on battlefield near Kirbet Um Batich by chaplain Mullins reburied Beersheba War Cemetery Palestine (CCo/4 IR Widebay CMF 4 weeks) brother Nigel 5 LHR and Walter Lt MC 25Bn WILLIAMS Robert Glen 1198 Pte 05 LHR 8R Tos C Sqn at Mudros 12-15 (G) qual unknown (possibly MG) course school of Instruction Zeitoun 8-17 to L/Cpl 10-17 killed in fighting near Wadi el Hesy and Tel el Nejila near Huj buried on battlefield near Kirbet Um Batich by chaplain Mullins reburied Beersheba War Cemetery Palestine Another man killed near Jemmameh BRODIE Walter Joseph 3016 Pte 4Bn 10R tos 1-16 to 56Bn 2-16 to A Troop BSqn/7 LHR 5-16 to hosp (septic sores) 7-17 rtn 8-17 reported killed shot in attack near Jemmemah reported body left on battlefield when unit withdrawn NKG listed on Jerusalem Memorial Palestine (shown 9 LH possibly D Troop ASqn/5 LH CMF 1 year) AKA Walter James Brodie brother William 7 LHR S.B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eran Tearosh Posted 14 June , 2022 Share Posted 14 June , 2022 Steve & AC I've been on this story for over two years. Last few days a local Israeli guy received some headlines in Israel and Australia, claiming to 'start' a search, 'for the first time', and so on. He managed to destroy (not for the first time - a bull in a China-Shop) all my efforts to bring and work together all the relevant Israeli authorities plus many volunteers. We already searched twice in the field and looked into those questions you brought up. As from today - no more. I'm out. To say I'm furious from the last few days publications in Israel & Australia is a serious understatement. Earlier today I notified the group of researchers and volunteers I'm quitting and I wrote this evening the same to the local Australian DA, asking her to inform the relevant officer in Canberra whose been in touch with me that I'm out. Enough is enough. As you know - first time ever I'm writing this way. Sorry. Hope someone will solve this in the future (Personally, I'm certain he is buried as an unidentified soldier in Beersheba). Eran Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 15 June , 2022 Share Posted 15 June , 2022 Eran, Thanks mate, it appears they have now brought me into the Pot with my limited details. Looks like my first look was the same as yours. We'll see where this new attempt goes, but if you with your resourses can't find anything then who knows. S.B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
domsim Posted 15 June , 2022 Share Posted 15 June , 2022 Very sad to hear this Eran after a lot of hard work. I've researched a couple of other Light Horse guys from my desk-Radburn & Brook who were buried in Jordan seem never to have been recovered-quite detailed location in their papers and fairly easy to find the general area using googleearth and a published list of bridges & culverts on the Hejaz railway. The big problem is this gets you to a general area and it is very unlikely anything will show on the surface after 100 years. You would need detailed bearings off existing features or detailed photos with stuff in the background to get anywhere close. Even geophysical survey might not find anything conclusive. A remote possibility might be historic aerial photos. as you say he may be an unknown at Beersheba-still a fascinating and important story. all the best Dom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 15 June , 2022 Share Posted 15 June , 2022 (edited) Mate, The 3 LHFA, who would have buried him, makes no mention of any burials The unit moved on the 8 Nov from Karm and around 1115 a sand cart was sent to pick up Lt MacKellar and moved him to Sheria for treatment. So Cochrane had not been killed then. The Regt stopped that night around Huj, as for the 3 LHFA, but as the horses had not watered since the 7 Nov, that was the main problem. A water point was sent up at Jemmameh, where they watered over night, but mainly the next day. On the 9 Nov the 3 LHFA sent up around Jemmameh, 6 miles north of Huj. While the Bde moved in the afternoon to Tel el Hesi, the tent Division of the 3 LHFA remained at Jemmameh, where they recovered wounded, and took care of the dead. Some 25 British/Aussies and 36 Turks were treated The tent sub unit moved on the 10 Nov, to catch up with the Bde. There is no mention of any burials, but Cochrane must have been buried then, as there had been no time on the 8 Nov. So where was the tent Div of the 3 LHFA Clearly that is not mentioned any where, but close to the water point at Jemmameh, and as Cochrane was buried near it by a Chaplain from the 3 LH Bde, which mostly travels with the Field Amb, then that's the best anyone could find? Cochrane, being with A Sqn 10 LHR, shows that Lt Mackellar was possibly wounded in the fighting around Khirbet Bahlawan, between 0900 to 1000 hrs (thats the closest I can put that down to). After this fighting the Sqn and Regt pushed on to Huj, where they came into action over running some guns ( two 5.9" how) around noon and a number more later in the day (two 4.7" how). C Sqn (Thompson's A and Kingdom's B Troops), came into action, and that's where they lost there main losses (along with MacGregor's and Duack's Troops under Timberley). Troops from A and B Sqns (Dunckley and Hamlin), in the late afternoon, moved to support the 1 LH Bde, where they came under fire around Wadi Jemmameh, it was here I believe Cochrane was killed, with the troops from Lt's Alan Herbert (B Sqn) , MacNee (B Sqn), (Throsell and Palmers Troops B Sqn not here) Mackellar A Sqn (WIA), Hughes (A Sqn?), Gollan (A Sqn?), and Lyall (A Sqn?) (Troop Officers have been hard to tie down 100%). While his death is not mentioned, but as the Turks retired, we followed up the best we could, with the 1 LH Bde stopping around 1900. The body, then would have become a 3 LHFA responiblity, when they could and been buried the next day by them But in all documents that is not mentioned by anyone, other then the details in his file? That's the best I can discover what happened that day, while the actions by the 10 LHR during the day was many and veried over some distance, I have centred on the A Sqn Area. S.B Edited 15 June , 2022 by stevebecker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Pickerd Posted 16 June , 2022 Share Posted 16 June , 2022 Hi Steve, The name of the Chaplain who recorded the burial site of Tpr Cochrane’s grave in the 10th ALH War diary and his service record, is miss spelt, he was Captain Joseph Bede McDonell, Roman Catholic Priest, Chaplain 4th Class, from Cundletown, NSW. Reported from England on the 7th August 1917 and posted to the 3rd ALH Bde. Attached to the 10th ALH Regt, 13/8/1917. He has a service record on the National Archives record search. As Tpr Cochrane was the only man killed on 8th November, and buried in the Wadi Jemmameh, as recorded in the 10th ALH War diary, with Lt MacKellar and five other ranks wounded, it would seem to indicate that the 3rd LHFA had no involvement in the burial, and that being undertaken on the 9th Nov by the 10th LH. This whole post has been rather fascinating as the various aspects of the story have unfolded. Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 16 June , 2022 Share Posted 16 June , 2022 Jeff, Cheers, another view is always good. So I checked other units, and found that the 1 LHFA, also set up at Jemmameh, arriving around 1900, that night (8 Nov) The Tent division worked during the day (9 Nov) treating around 140 men and 70 Turks, while the remainder moved with the 1 LH Bde to Sim Sim by 1030. But like the 3 LHFA, no mention of any burials They make no mention of being near the 3 LHFA and its Tent Division so how close were they? Mate, I don't see why the 3 LH Bde (3 LHFA) would have no involement in the Burial? As you mention, and all records confirm, that the Chaplain was from the 3 LH Bde While all regts had their own chaplains, they mostly traveled with the Bde Field Ambulance, not at Bde HQ or with Regts. So why would not? He was a Prody from Ireland, so did it matter that a Rock Chopper chaplain buried him? Sorry I think I see where you were going, you mean that the Regt buried him not the Field Ambulance? I don't see it, bodies were buried by Regt's under control of the Medical services Bodies were moved to a FAmb, where possible, or buried under their control. Regt's didn't just dig a hole and throw them, in unless under control of the Doctor and or Chaplain so the burial could be recorded, as Cochranes was. That's why Chaplains mostly traveled with the FAmb, to look after the wounded and sick and bury the dead. But I am open here to any directions you see. I have not see any of the British Yeomanry unit War Diaries attached to the Aussie Mounted Divisions, but since they were not around this area I can discount them for now. Cheers S.B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 16 June , 2022 Share Posted 16 June , 2022 (edited) Mate, A check of all those killed or DoW's, that day and those who died the next day from wounds shows a mix of units from two fronts we were fighting on. Crossing off those Nth of Beersheba we are left with; KIA 8 Nov 1917 BARROW Percival Gilbert 229 Pte 6 LHR B Sqn C Troop (680) T/att MMP 1 Div HQ 6-15 evac to Imtarfa hosp Malta (dysentry) 7-15 rtn 9-15 to L/Cpl 11-15 to T/Cpl 11-15 (G) to Cpl 12-15 to T/Sgt (from macrae) 5-16 revert 7-16 to L/Sgt (from burlace) 9-16 to T/Sgt B Sqn 9-16 to Sgt (from ross) 12-16 recom - for his actions as A/Troop leader of Flank guard in operation around the Wadi Imleh 30/31-7-17 reported killed by sniper supporting the 5 LHR during retreat of Turkish Army near Sheria buried on battlefield near pumping station and Orchard at Jemmemah or Junnawa by chaplain Maley reburied Gaza War Cemetery Palestine (shown 5 LH not in records? CMF) AKA Pervical Gilbert Barrow sister Lucy AANS COLQUHOUN David 2371 Pte ICC 9R to LH Dtls 4-17 to CTU 5-17 tos 18Co/4Bn ICC 6-17 reported killed shot in Turkish attack at Ras el Nagh buried on battlefield by Cpl Bell later grave lost NKG Listed on the Jerusalem War Memorial (31 IR Leichhardt CMF 18 months) COCHRANE Louden Park 2990 Pte 10 LHR 22R to 3 LHTR 12-16 tos A Sqn 1-17 to hosp (toncilitis) 6-17 rtn 7-17 killed in advance and fighting around Huj buried on battlefield near Jemmemah by chaplain McDonnell later grave lost NKG listed on Jerusalem War Memorial Palestine BRODIE Walter Joseph 3016 Pte 4Bn 10R tos 1-16 to 56Bn 2-16 to A Troop BSqn/7 LHR 5-16 to hosp (septic sores) 7-17 rtn 8-17 reported killed shot in attack near Jemmemah reported body left on battlefield when unit withdrawn NKG listed on Jerusalem Memorial Palestine (D Troop ASqn/5 LH CMF 9 months) AKA Walter James Brodie brother William 7 LHR BLACKSHAW William Eric 5759 Dvr 2 LH Bde Trn 5R (6Co AASC) remain Egypt tos C Troop CSqn/5 LHR (5759a) 3-16 reported killed by MG in fighting at Kirbet Um Batich near Sheria buried on battlefield near Kirbet Um Batich by chaplain Mullins reburied Beersheba War Cemetery Palestine brothers Sydney Lt 17Bn and Oswald AASC ROSS Wilfred Wallace 353 Sig 05 LHR C Sqn WIA 20-5-15 minor shrapnel reported 3 wounded when shelled near Monash Gully moving to No 3 sect evac to hosp Malta (dysentry) 9-15 to (king george) hosp London UK 9-15 (G) to AB Tidworth Uk 1-17 to 2 LHTR 4-17 rtn 7-17 killed in fighting near Wadi el Hesy and Tel el Nejila near Huj buried on battlefield near Kirbet Um Batich by chaplain Mullins reburied Beersheba War Cemetery Palestine (CCo/4 IR Widebay CMF 4 weeks) brother Nigel 5 LHR and Walter Lt MC 25Bn WILLIAMS Robert Glen 1198 Pte 05 LHR 8R Tos C Sqn at Mudros 12-15 (G) qual unknown possibly MG course school of Instruction Zeitoun 8-17 to L/Cpl 10-17 killed in fighting near Wadi el Hesy and Tel el Nejila near Huj buried on battlefield near Kirbet Um Batich by chaplain Mullins reburied Beersheba War Cemetery Palestine NILSON William Martinus 2310 Pte 05 LHR 16R to 2 LHTR 5-16 to 2 double sqn 7-16 to 4 Cml Regt 11-16 tos 18Co/4Bn ICC 2-17 qual saddlery course 7-17 reported killed shot in attack at Ras el Nagh buried on battlefield by Cpl Bell later grave lost NKG listed on Jerusalem Memorial Palestine DoW 8-11-17 GEORGE Roy 2178 Pte 05 LHR 15R to 2 LHTR 3-16 tos 2 LH MGS 8-16 to hosp (knee injury not stated) 11-16 rtn 11-16 shown WIA 5-11-17 reported WIA 6-11-17 head shot when 8 killed and 19 wounded in charge at Khuweilfe suporting the 3Bn ICC died at 35 CCS buried at El Ismara by chaplain Lonsdale reburied Beersheba War Cemetery Palestine brother William 26Bn MSM MID MORLEY Charles Reginald 129 A/Cpl 05 LHR B Sqn to Sgt B Troop 1-15 evac to Valetta hosp Malta (enteric) 6-15 (G) RTA MU enteric reemb 18R to 2 LHTR 6-16 Tos possibly B Sqn? 8-16 att school of Instruction (cavalry course) Zeitoun 1-17 rtn 2-17 to SSM B Sqn (from Somers) 3-17 prom 2/Lt A Sqn or C Sqn D Troop? 30-7-17 att school of Instruction (hotchkiss instructor MG course) Zeitoun 8-17 rtn 9-17 WIA 8-11-17 neck shot reported 3 killed and 1 officer and 12 wounded in fighting near Wadi el Hesy and Tel el Nejila near Huj died in sand cart with 2 LHFA reported buried by Capt Dr Ahern Anzac collection station near Huj reburied Beersheba War Cemetery Palestine (B Troop CSqn/4 LH CMF 2 years) WEBSTER Tom 328 Pte 05 LHR C Sqn to T/Cpl (from O'Connor) 11-15 (G) to Cpl 12-15 to Sgt 3-16 to T/SSM C Sqn? (from Waldeck) 11-16 to SSM 1-17 prom 2/Lt A Sqn ? Troop 13-4-17 reported for his Troops work with Lt Boyds Troop and with Lt Taylor and Broughton's Troops C Sqn against Turkish Cav at Wadi Imlieh Hill 410 11-7-17 and with Lt Graham's Troop to capture a patrol around Hill 630 on the Abu Shawish road near Hannafish 14/15-7-17 T/att school of Instruction (hotchkiss instructor MG course) Zeitoun 9-17 WIA 7-11-17 abdomen shot in fighting near El Sheria died at 1 LHFA buried near railway station of Klum Armadat near El Sheria reburied at Beersheba War Cemetery Palestine AKA Thomas Webster THOMSON John Arthur 359 Pte 11 LHR B Sqn att DSqn/05 LHR 8-15 WIA 8-10-15 face bomb reported 5 wounded at Chathams Post (G) rtn 2-16 to Cpl 8-16 WIA 6/7-11-17 abdoman shot in charge at Khurbet Buteihah near Sheria died in 75 CCS at El Imara reburied Beersheba War Cemetery Palestine DoW 9-11-17 KELLEHER John 1687 A/Cpl 05 LHR 11R tos L/Cpl A Sqn B Troop 2-16 to T/Cpl (from lawrence) 3-16 to T/Cpl (from robertson) 5-16 to Cpl 8-16 to T/Sgt D Troop (from solling) 10-17 revert when WIA 8-11-17 serious reported shot to head by sniper one of 3 killed and 13 wounded in fighting near Wadi el Hesy and Tel el Nejila near Huj died at 1 LHFA buried near Railway at Sheria by chaplain Ahern reburied Beersheba War Cemetery Palestine GIRTON William 1824 Pte 7 LHR 13R Tos 1-16 to 2 LHTR 3-16 to 2 double sqn 7-16 to 4 Cml Regt 11-16 to 17Co/4Bn ICC 2-17 to 12Co/3Bn 7-17 WIA 7-11-17 chest and groin shot in fighting at Khuweilfe died at 65 CCS buried at El Imara by Chaplain Skipper reburied Beersheba War Cemetery Palestine DUDLEY John Irving 2169 A/Sgt 6 LHR 15R to 2 LHTR 4-16 to T/Far/Sgt 2 double sqn 7-16 to 4 Cml Regt 11-16 tos L/Cpl 17Co/4Bn ICC (2169a) 2-17 qual hotchkiss MG 6-17 WIA 8-11-17 head bomb in Turkish attack at Ras el Nagh died at Aust Div Rec Station buried Beersheba War Cemetery Palestine AKA served as Irving Alfred Charles Percy Goodwin GRAHAM Thomas 2467 Pte 7 LHR 17R to 2 LHTR 6-16 to hosp (sciatica) 9-16 RTA MU reemb 26R to 2 LHTR 7-17 ToS A Sqn? 7-17 WIA 9-11-17 multiple shrapnel reported 21 casualties most from A Sqn during the capture of 6 guns and 500 Turks near Suafr Es Gharbiye died at 2 LHFA buried on battlefield near Huleikat reburied Gaza War Cemetery Palestine AKA alais Thomas C. Hill DAVIS Edward 3234 Pte 05 LHR 26R to 2 LHTR 7-17 Tos B Sqn? 7-17 WIA 8-11-17 serious reported 3 killed and 13 wounded in fighting near Wadi el Hesy and Tel el Nejila near Huj died at 1 LHFA buried near Railway at Sheria by chaplain Ahern reburied Beersheba War Cemetery Palestine WHITBREAD William Salisbury 33 A/Far/Sgt 05 LHR B Sqn remain Egypt rtn 1-16 WIA 8-11-17 abdomen shot reported when shelled in fighting near Wadi el Hesy and Tel el Nejila near Huj died at 1 LHFA buried near Railway at Sheria by chaplain Ahern reburied Beersheba War Cemetery Palestine (shown SA IR possibly BCo/81 IR Wakefield CMF 3 years) RYAN John Patrick 1356 Pte 7 LHR 10R tos A Sqn? 12-15 to L/Cpl 2-16 to T/Cpl (from martyn) 11-16 revert 12-16 to T/Cpl (from ross) 1-17 revert 2-17 to Cpl (from yardy) 7-17 WIA 9-11-17 back shrapnel reported 21 casualties most from A Sqn during the capture of 6 guns and 500 Turks near Suafr Es Gharbiye died at 2 LHFA buried at Es Saufirel Sharbyie by chaplain Mullins reburied Gaza War Cemetery Palestine age 44 (Boer War L/Cpl Kitchener's Horse (4141) brothers George 33Bn KIA and Arthur 12 LHR SMITH William Norman 1517 Pte 7 LHR 11R tos A Sqn B Troop 12-15 WIA 9-11-17 abdoman shot reported 21 casualties most from A Sqn during the capture of 6 guns and 500 Turks near Suafr Es Gharbiye died at 2 LHFA near Suafir esh Shererye buried near Suafr Esn Sherkrye by chaplain Backhouse reburied Gaza War Cemetery Palestine TIMSON Frederick John 1525 Pte 7 LHR 11R tos C Sqn 12-15 to A Sqn 1-16 WIA 6-11-17 head shot reported A Sqn lost 2 killed and 15 wounded supporting the 2 LH MGS at Khuweilfe died at 65 CCS near Ismara buried Beersheba War Cemetery Palestine So we can see who buried who and where S.B Edited 16 June , 2022 by stevebecker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
domsim Posted 17 June , 2022 Share Posted 17 June , 2022 (edited) There is a picture of Cochrane's grave here: https://vwma.org.au/explore/people/301733 I presume it would be possible to check some of the 10th LHR private diaries of the correct date that are listed as being in the collections of the Australian War Memorial to see if there are any mentions? One has been published: The Great Ride: The Diary Of A Light Horse Brigade Scout, World War I by Henry P. Bostock. I presume in very fluid situations decisions had to be made about burials-my research on Radburn & Brook in Jordan shows they were buried where they fell in the presence of a Chaplain but with no evidence of any medical involvement-presumably there wasn't the cover at that particular time? Difficult to work out why Cochrane was killed where he was from the war diary movements? all the best Dom Edited 17 June , 2022 by domsim typo! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 18 June , 2022 Share Posted 18 June , 2022 (edited) Mate, I agree with the date. He was killed late in the day, and as the Regt could not stop to bury anyone, then as I thought, he was buried the next day. I check finds no direct diary of any one here but in another Sqn, see the Regt History by Gilly and Nev Browning. This as a nice detailed account of the fighting that day, but centres on C Sqn written by Lt Kingdom and another by Lt Thompson There appears no accounts by anyone in A Sqn or B Sqn who were part of the force sent to Support the 1 LH Bde around Jemmameh? So we are left with what we have, but you never know what can turn up. We know that the Chaplain buried him so that means the Field Amb, we don't know the names of the men at his grave or when taken but the 9 Nov seams correct? Dom, I agree, but the burial of Radburn and Brook was different, as the Troop was all alone and could not bring the bodies back to be buried. That's if I am remembering it right. S.B Edited 18 June , 2022 by stevebecker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aconnolly Posted 18 June , 2022 Share Posted 18 June , 2022 The photograph of the grave is informative - open land, no stone cairn over the grave of any significance, and a wooden cross. I suspect the visible evidence of the grave could quite easily have been destroyed by livestock or nature. Andrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aconnolly Posted 18 June , 2022 Share Posted 18 June , 2022 Geographically there are four CWGC Cemeteries within a similar range of the original isolated grave that contain graves of the Unknown. These are (for First World War): Beersheba: 66 graves Gaza War Cemetery 781 graves Deir El Belah 5 graves And Jerusalem War Cemetery 100 graves The Jerusalem Memorial lists 3300 First World War dead with no known grave of whom 239 are Australian servicemen. I think unless the CWGC Archives list exhumations of "unknowns" with very good coordinates recorded it would be near impossible to conclude which cemetery he could be in if he is one of the 952 "unknowns" buried within the regional CWGC Cemeteries. Andrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 18 June , 2022 Share Posted 18 June , 2022 Andy, Mate from what the people who sent the inquiry to me, that all details of the recovery of the body by the CWGC was lost? I did find this hard to believe, but what can I say? I wonder if that is true for the many others also lost on the books S.B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aconnolly Posted 18 June , 2022 Share Posted 18 June , 2022 Steve Seems if the CWGC lost records is correct then the search regarding being a buried unknown comes pretty well to an end. AC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 18 June , 2022 Share Posted 18 June , 2022 Mate, Yes that's what I came to. They must have conducted a search of the area as they appear to have done with all bodies I 've seen. These appear to by Indian work parties from their Engineers (at lest in some I saw) But as stated the body was placed on the open plain then its a needle in --? Jeff, Yes McDONELL Joseph Bede Rev Capt AACD RC Chaplain 4th class to UK reemb at Capetown to 12 Trg Bn UK 5-17 to 3 LH Bde HQ 8-17 att Chaplain RHQ/10 LHR 8-17 to 1 LH Bde HQ 9-18 att 2 ASH 12-18 rtn Chaplain 3rd class 1 LH Bde HQ 1-19 att RHQ/01 LHR 1-19 relist Special Service to UK to UK 7-19 shown AKA O'Donnell He replaced GOODMAN Aubrey John Rev Capt AACD Chaplain RC 4th class Tos Chaplain 10Bn 11-15 to 3 LH Bde HQ 12-15 to Chaplain RHQ/10 LHR 12-15 (G) WIA 12-8-16 scorpian bite accident near Hod el Fatir WIA 19-4-17 L/foot reported by MG bullet at 2nd Gaza to 2 ASH 8-17 to 14 AGH 11-17 shown padre 2 ASH 3-18 to 1 Trg Bn UK 7-18 to 14 Bde HQ 10-18 att Chaplain 53Bn 10-18 F&B brother Francis 48Bn KIA S.B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aconnolly Posted 18 June , 2022 Share Posted 18 June , 2022 Steve I've looked through War Graves registration and the IWGC details available on line from the Australian National Archives - nothing of material benefit I'm afraid. Not all the records are digitised, but nothing that is describes/covers exhumation work. AC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 19 June , 2022 Share Posted 19 June , 2022 Mate, The only thing I have seen was a comment when the battlefields were cleared by the 20th (Indian) Bde around Gaza years after the battle. MATHESON Alexander Robert 578 Pte 12 LHR C Sqn att DSqn/6 LHR 8-15 (G) rtn Dvr 2-16 to C Sqn 4-16 revert to Pte C Sqn 1 Troop? 7-16 KIA 19-4-17 killed (Lt Lowing reports he lost 1 killed and 6 wounded in his Troop at 2nd Gaza) during fighting at Atawine Redoubt and body left on battlefield at 2nd Gaza & reported later buried near Atawine Ridge by 20 Indian Bde and chaplain Stewart 15-11-17 reburied Gaza War Cemetery Palestine SAMUELS Harold 1444 Pte 9 LHR 11R tos A Sqn 12-15 to bugler 1-16 WIA 5-8-16 L/arm shot at Hod Hamisan to Bugler Cpl 1-17 to RHQ 2-17 KIA 19-4-17 killed during fighting at Atawine Redoubt at 2nd Gaza body left on battlefield & reported later buried near Atawine Ridge by 20 Indian Bde 15-11-17 reburied Gaza War Cemetery Palestine (BCo/81 IR Wakefield CMF 2 years) McNAMARA Richard Andrew 1634 Pte 10 LHR 12R tos A Sqn? 2-16 to L/Cpl 12-16 KIA 19-4-17 killed in attack on the Atawine Redoubt at 2nd Gaza body left on battlefield & reported later buried near Atawine Ridge by 20 Indian Bde and chaplain Stewart 15-11-17 reburied Gaza War Cemetery Palestine (1Sqn/16 LH SAMR CMF 3 years) TRUMAN Percy Oswald 2760 Pte 9 LHR 19R to DSqn/3 LHTR 8-16 tos Sig RHQ 2-17 KIA 19-4-17 killed during fighting at Atawine Redoubt at 2nd Gaza body left on battlefield & reported later buried near Atawine Ridge by 20 Indian Bde 15-11-17 reburied Gaza War Cemetery Palestine (CCo/74 IR Boothby CMF) related A Truman PRATT William Herbert 3067 Pte 10 LHR 23R to 3 LHTR 3-17 Tos possibly B Sqn? 4-17 KIA 19-4-17 killed during fighting at Atawine Redoubt and body left on battlefield at 2nd Gaza & reported later buried near Atawine Ridge by 20 Indian Bde and chaplain Stewart 15-11-17 (believed reburied in) reburied Gaza War Cemetery Palestine I did see something by an Indian Engineer unit which cleared another area, but can't find it. S.B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aconnolly Posted 20 June , 2022 Share Posted 20 June , 2022 That's very interesting Steve - suggests there was a methodical approach at least to some of those buried in isolated graves. AC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 21 June , 2022 Share Posted 21 June , 2022 (edited) Mate, Yes, we would think that the Ottomans would bury our dead, but that's not the case While bodies were stripped of clothing and boots, most were not buried, and left the rot in front of there defences. I must admit we did the same in most cases and didn't bury there's, while other then ratting the bodies for souvenirs, we didn't strip them. Such is war S.B Edited 21 June , 2022 by stevebecker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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