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Remembered Today:

Any thoughts on his former service with the East Lancs Regt before KLR


davidbohl

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Pte Thomas Alfred Evans #94247 KLR  cwgc, according to SDGW he formerly served as #39541 East Lancs.

He was born August 1898 and lived in Bromborough, Wirral, is there any way of verifying his former service please ? Nothing on medal cards.

Death date error as well, should be 1918

1142236141_Screenshot2022-06-1112_17_29.png.1b6111f5ed031e2c084c8436eeda5a3b.png

From Anc.

493833843_Screenshot2022-06-1111_37_54.png.f450026285b9152c5d5596fd65523a52.png

Thanks

Dave

 

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43 minutes ago, davidbohl said:

Pte Thomas Alfred Evans #94247 KLR  cwgc, according to SDGW he formerly served as #39541 East Lancs.

He was born August 1898 and lived in Bromborough, Wirral, is there any way of verifying his former service please ? Nothing on medal cards.

Death date error as well, should be 1918

1142236141_Screenshot2022-06-1112_17_29.png.1b6111f5ed031e2c084c8436eeda5a3b.png

From Anc.

493833843_Screenshot2022-06-1111_37_54.png.f450026285b9152c5d5596fd65523a52.png

Thanks

Dave

 

The effects records have a 1918 year of death, rather than 1917.

Craig

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Near numbers work from his medal roll is most likely route.  I’ve started looking!

a hunch would be he was uk trained as East  Lancs and then transferred at or just before the depot in France. 

his age likely precludes any early or pre war activity. 

Andy 

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Best guess based on surviving service records for East Lancs is enlistment October/November 1917 but that doesn't match the gratuity.

But posting does!

  

 

 

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4 minutes ago, kenf48 said:

Best guess based on surviving service records for East Lancs is enlistment October/November 1917 but that doesn't match the gratuity.

  

 

 

Scrap my earlier post as I selected the Type 1 instead of Type 2 gratuity.

image.png

Craig

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CWGC clearly has him as 29 April 1918 age 20.  Tyne Cot memorial.  

Does  that mes up the gratuity calculation ?

Edit -  typing too slowly 

Edited by AndrewSid
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Just now, AndrewSid said:

CWGC clearly has him as 29 April 1918 age 20.  Tyne Cot memorial.  

Does  that mes up the gratuity calculation ?

 

No, as I used that date but I used the wrong gratuity type on my calculation, so I had to re-do it.

Craig

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I think you will find that he originally joined 67/TRB probably in March 1917 - later being transferred to the 3/ELR in November 1917 - and so will explain everything !!

Regards

Russ

 

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#39542 East Lancs was called up for a training battalion on  28 March 1917, and transferred to the East Lancs on 9 November 1917.

This would suggest that Evans was called up around the same time in March 1917, which ties in with the gratuity.

Craig

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4 minutes ago, jay dubaya said:

39584 (East Lancs) enlisted 29th March 1917

I am afraid this is incorrect information - his enlistment date was as you say but, as per my earlier post, it was into the 67/TRB and he was then transferred to the 3/ELR in November 1917 (when he was allotted his ELR number of 39584).

Taking information like that direct from his SWB records can easily lead to this type of error !

Regards

Russ

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28 minutes ago, RussT said:

am afraid this is incorrect information - his enlistment date was as you say but, as per my earlier post, it was into the 67/TRB and he was then transferred to the 3/ELR in November 1917 (when he was allotted his ELR number of 39584).

 

Russ,   Based on the above I presume there is another service number at large for his TRB time?  Likely with a x/xxxxx formation?

equally 7 months at a TRB suggests a training delay of some sorts? 
 

 

Edited by AndrewSid
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44 minutes ago, RussT said:

I think you will find that he originally joined 67/TRB probably in March 1917 - later being transferred to the 3/ELR in November 1917 - and so will explain everything !!

Wonder if you could please explain/cite your source(s) - always likely to help us if we know where you have been looking.

M

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26 minutes ago, ss002d6252 said:

This is #39542 on FindMyPast.

image.png

Thanks Craig - sources are always appreciated [and especially images, particularly when not everybody has access to such].

M

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1 hour ago, AndrewSid said:

Russ,   Based on the above I presume there is another service number at large for his TRB time?  Likely with a x/xxxxx formation?

equally 7 months at a TRB suggests a training delay of some sorts? 

The LLT tells us that men who joined the 67/TRB would have been given a TR number as follows: TR/3/XXXXX.

These TR numbers are (normally) missing from MICs because of course men did not serve overseas with those units/numbers. They can also be sometimes quite difficult to make out on incomplete service records. But I can just about make out that 39542 ELR was formerly TR/3/17023 and 39584 ELR was formerly TR/3/17326. So it seems 39541 ELR would have been formerly TR/3/17xxx whilst with the 67/TRB.

Incidentally (but I think coincidently wrt to Evans), the 67/TRB was formed from the 21st KLR on 1st September 1916 when the TRB was created.

Whatever the reason for the time it took to be transferred from the TRB to the 3/ELR, it evidently affected others as the records show a similar route for a number men with these ELR numbers.

Russ

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Thanks Russ.

Ive had a quick look at the medal roll for those 26 who went to the 19th.  Half a dozen or so who died (at least) all have E Lancs as their previous unit, noting the medal roll was alphabetical and the 19th got C to H.

Cant find a service history for a BEF date yet. 

Andy

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26 minutes ago, AndrewSid said:

Ive had a quick look at the medal roll for those 26 who went to the 19th.  Half a dozen or so who died (at least) all have E Lancs as their previous unit, noting the medal roll was alphabetical and the 19th got C to H.

Cant find a service history for a BEF date yet.

Given that those men had somewhat varied former ELR numbers, then it's not going to be possible I think to pin point when Evan was first sent overseas - because he was transferred to the ELR before he went to France. Incidentally, I think some of the former ELR numbers in SDGW for KLR men with 942xx numbers are actually their former TR numbers as they suspiciously begin 17xxx.

We can be more certain as to when he transferred to the KLR and was allotted his 94247 number.

The record shows that Downs was allotted his KLR number of 94240 on 19/03/1918 a day after embarking.

My best view is that Evans would have been sent overseas and similarly transferred to the KLR at the same time.

Regards

Russ

 

 

94240 KLR.jpg

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Thanks Russ.  All very clear.  My experience is very shallow but in your view is it the case that men, especially from 1916, very often changed regiment upon arrival at the depot, to the extent that this was more the norm than the exception?  Noting perhaps it was within a clutch of regiments associated with depot responsibility ie Cornish men rarely moved to a Yorkshire regiment.  I can understand the logic of simply proving drafts to whatever battalion was in the direst need but I’m curious if that administrative action and authority sat with a staff team at the depot centre that was informed by the division they fed.

andy
 

 

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Many thanks to all the contributors to this thread, I think we are all a touch wiser now.

I'll update his biography with his passage through to the East Lancs Regt.

Dave

 

 

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