blue Posted 6 June , 2022 Share Posted 6 June , 2022 Good afternoon i have just been given a George V MC to a Captain A H Butterworth RFC .My friend found it in his late fathers wardrobe!! im struggling to find any info on him apart from a note with them saying Awarded for shooting down 2 enemy aircraft any info would be greatly appreciated Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coldstreamer Posted 6 June , 2022 Share Posted 6 June , 2022 Have you tried the London gazette ? Is it engraved or unnamed as issued ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted 6 June , 2022 Author Share Posted 6 June , 2022 Had a look but could only find promotions which indicated he was promoted to Captain in 1921 so the engraving on the back was obviously done after that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tawhiri Posted 6 June , 2022 Share Posted 6 June , 2022 (edited) Presumably this man, Captain Arnold Hewitt Butterworth, of the Welsh Regiment and RFC/RAF. https://www.casualtyforms.org/form/2340 His AIR 76 personnel record is currently available online through the National Archives to download for free, you'll just need to register for an account before you do so. This will cover his RFC/RAF service, from his casualty form it appears he transferred to the RFC from the Welsh Regiment, so there may also be an Army officer's personnel record at the National Archives as well, but this won't have been digitized so would require an in-person visit. https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D8198291 Edited to add a link to his Army officer's personnel record. https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C1099206 He seems to have been admitted to hospital on 16 October 1918, although from the card it is not clear why. http://www.rafmuseumstoryvault.org.uk/archive/butterworth-a.h His Military Cross, which was announced in the Gazette of 23 April 1918, was awarded for an action while serving with the Welsh Regiment so the note that it was for shooting down two enemy aircraft is a bit of a red herring I'm afraid. https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/30651/supplement/4997 He was commissioned as a 2nd Lieutenant with the Welsh Regiment on 19 December 1916, if you search on his full name you'll find several other mentions in the Gazette as well. https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/29908/supplement/739 Edited 6 June , 2022 by Tawhiri Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tawhiri Posted 6 June , 2022 Share Posted 6 June , 2022 (edited) His medal index card makes for interesting reading, alongside his AIR 76 personnel record. The latter seems to indicate that he was mentioned in dispatches three times, as well as being awarded the Military Cross before joining the RFC. The former shows that before being commissioned he was actually serving with the Military Mounted Police, then commissioned as a 2nd Lieutenant with the Welsh Regiment, before finishing up in the Indian Army Reserve of Officers, with an initial date of entry into a theatre of war of 24 December 1914 in France. The medal index card is definitely for the same man as in the AIR 76 personnel record, the addresses on both the medal index card and the AIR 76 record match, Huntsman's Brow, Stockport. Image sourced from Ancestry: Edited 6 June , 2022 by Tawhiri Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 7 June , 2022 Share Posted 7 June , 2022 (edited) There should be an Attestation document in his file somewhere from the time he joined as an other rank, unless his soldier’s service record was kept separately and destroyed in the Arnside St bombing. Prewar it was only possible to join the MMP on transfer from another corps, usually a mounted duty one. However, if he enlisted early in the war some direct entry was permitted from former municipal policemen. The IARO was often used as a convenient billet for officers who wished to continue serving at a time when the British Armed Services were undergoing profound post-war reductions. Edited 7 June , 2022 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tawhiri Posted 7 June , 2022 Share Posted 7 June , 2022 (edited) At the moment I'm not seeing an obvious reason for him joining the Military Mounted Police as his AIR 76 personnel record gives his pre-war occupation as manager from 1905 to 1914. The 1911 England and Wales census gives his occupation as grocery assistant, so he clearly wasn't a pre-war policeman of any sort. His AIR 76 personnel record only covers his time with the RFC/RAF. Would his Army officer's personnel record at the National Archives contain his soldier's service record, or would that have only been started on his commissioning in December 1916? Sadly he died on 21 October 1928, aged 39, his death being registered in Wandsworth, London. He is buried in Cheadle (Park Road) Cemetery in Stockport, along with his parents and a younger brother. BUTTERWORTH, ARNOLD HEWITT 39 GRO Reference: 1928 D Quarter in WANDSWORTH Volume 01D Page 661 Edited 7 June , 2022 by Tawhiri Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clk Posted 7 June , 2022 Share Posted 7 June , 2022 (edited) Hi blue, It looks like his MC was awarded for his actions on 7th to 10th November 1917, when he was attached to the 2nd Bn. Images sourced from the National Archives For that time period, available as free downloads, the Battalion; Brigade; and Division war diaries are here, here, and here. Regards Chris Edited 7 June , 2022 by clk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 9 June , 2022 Share Posted 9 June , 2022 On 07/06/2022 at 13:25, Tawhiri said: At the moment I'm not seeing an obvious reason for him joining the Military Mounted Police as his AIR 76 personnel record gives his pre-war occupation as manager from 1905 to 1914. The 1911 England and Wales census gives his occupation as grocery assistant, so he clearly wasn't a pre-war policeman of any sort. His AIR 76 personnel record only covers his time with the RFC/RAF. Would his Army officer's personnel record at the National Archives contain his soldier's service record, or would that have only been started on his commissioning in December 1916? Sadly he died on 21 October 1928, aged 39, his death being registered in Wandsworth, London. He is buried in Cheadle (Park Road) Cemetery in Stockport, along with his parents and a younger brother. BUTTERWORTH, ARNOLD HEWITT 39 GRO Reference: 1928 D Quarter in WANDSWORTH Volume 01D Page 661 Thank you, that’s interesting. I’ve often wondered at what precise point the stipulation requiring former service in another corps was rescinded, and I’m still none the wiser. Presumably it might have been initially announced in an Army Council Instruction, followed by a General Routine Order, but I’ve not found when. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted 21 June , 2022 Author Share Posted 21 June , 2022 Thanks everyone for your input. In Glynis Coopers book Stockport in the Great War she writes . Early in 1918 Lieutenant A H Butterworth of Stockport was awarded the Military Cross for "Bringing down two Boche machines in air fighting" Obviously not the case, but the family must of maintained this story over the decades !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matlock1418 Posted 21 June , 2022 Share Posted 21 June , 2022 (edited) Just to add to the pot ... his pension card at WFA/Fold3 - it's an Army reference number, not Royal Air Force. Image courtesy of WFA/Fold3 M Edited 21 June , 2022 by Matlock1418 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nils d Posted 22 June , 2022 Share Posted 22 June , 2022 On 21/06/2022 at 12:39, blue said: awarded the Military Cross for "Bringing down two Boche machines in air fighting" Obviously not the case, but the family must of maintained this story over the decades !! That is not to say that he didn't shoot down two Bosch planes !. What unit was he in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topgun1918 Posted 23 June , 2022 Share Posted 23 June , 2022 Judging by his AIR76 file, he was only ever in training units - Reading on 31 December 1917, Winchester 15.1.18, NTB 22.2.18, 41 Training Sqn 25.2.18, 47 TDS (date unclear), hospital 16.10.18, 34 TDS 15.1.19, 46 TDS 6.3.19, Unemployed List 20.5.19. Graeme Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airshipped Posted 23 June , 2022 Share Posted 23 June , 2022 Possibly a case of mistaken identity. For example here's a two-kill Butterworth, albeit a Norman, son of an A.H. Butterworth. https://huddersfield.exposed/wiki/Norman_Butterworth_(1892-1917) Even at that it's unlikely that this Butterworth chap was credited with two kills, rather he was involved in the aerial action during which two enemy aircraft were claimed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topgun1918 Posted 23 June , 2022 Share Posted 23 June , 2022 The two 'driven down' were not considered victories so were not credited to the squadron; the others two were credited to Lieut Henry Hall Griffith & Lieut Dudley George Antoine Allen, an E.A. out of control and Lieut James Goulding Crang & Lieut John Alfred Sully, an Albatros scout in flames. These were reported in RFC Communique number 87: On the 9th a reconnaissance of 70 Squadron was attacked by 15 HA while taking photographs. Lts Griffith & Allen fired at close range into one HA which immediately fell out of control. One Albatros scout dived on Lt Crang's machine but his Observer, Lt Sully, fired at burst at the attacking Albatros which burst into flames and fell. No 70 Sqn suffered two casualties: 2nd Lieut William John Gayner (Pow) & 25156 2/AM George Dwight Breakfield (Kia), 1½ Strutter A994 - took off 12:50 (British Time)/13:50 (German Time) then missing on reconnaissance Caudry - Neuvilly; Vzfw Richard Dilcher, Jasta 5, 1st victory [St Hilaire - Cambrai at 14:00/15:00] ? Capt Richard Spencer Lucy (Ok) & 2nd Lieut Norman Butterworth (Kia), 1½ Strutter A8174 - took off 12:50/13:50 then force landed Morlancourt after aerial combat on reconnaissance Graeme Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now