RichardsProductions99 Posted 31 May , 2022 Share Posted 31 May , 2022 Hello all! Just researching a Lance Serjeant of the 32/RF and wondered if anyone can shed light on the meaning of the text on his medal card. It reads: 'reduced by F.G.C.M. 31.7.16' What does this mean? Thanks in advance! Best wishes, Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Upton Posted 31 May , 2022 Share Posted 31 May , 2022 4 minutes ago, RichardsProductions99 said: Hello all! Just researching a Lance Serjeant of the 32/RF and wondered if anyone can shed light on the meaning of the text on his medal card. It reads: 'reduced by F.G.C.M. 31.7.16' What does this mean? Thanks in advance! Best wishes, Chris "Reduced by Field General Court Martial 31st January 1916" - sounds like he did something wrong and was reduced to the ranks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardsProductions99 Posted 31 May , 2022 Author Share Posted 31 May , 2022 Oh dear, I wonder what he got up to. What would be the severity of an offence that gained such a punishment? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Upton Posted 31 May , 2022 Share Posted 31 May , 2022 1 minute ago, RichardsProductions99 said: Oh dear, I wonder what he got up to. What would be the severity of an offence that gained such a punishment? It could be something very trivial. One Acting Sergeant I researched a number of years lost his temporary third stripe in a FGCM for failing to ensure a working party he was in charge of was sufficiently equipped with spades... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardsProductions99 Posted 31 May , 2022 Author Share Posted 31 May , 2022 @Andrew Upton Do records of FGCMs survive? I saw something in passing that they did? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Upton Posted 31 May , 2022 Share Posted 31 May , 2022 1 minute ago, RichardsProductions99 said: @Andrew Upton Do records of FGCMs survive? I saw something in passing that they did? I couldn't say. The chap I researched was lucky enough to have a surviving service record which recorded it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardsProductions99 Posted 31 May , 2022 Author Share Posted 31 May , 2022 A little look leads to this NA page: https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C2601703 I wonder how comprehensive it is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted 31 May , 2022 Share Posted 31 May , 2022 nosing out of curiosity his pension card has him recorded as 16695 Stephen Lumley Ramsey , R Fus. KIA same date. also his claimant card has same number name Ramsay, claimants name Charles , his father. Duplicate dependants card also 16695 , Ramsay and 32nd Roy Fus. 2 Highcliffe , Gateshead.. ranks recorded as Pte. using this and your info may expand the search, also , possibility of a record being in the war diary? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David26 Posted 31 May , 2022 Share Posted 31 May , 2022 51 minutes ago, RichardsProductions99 said: A little look leads to this NA page: https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C2601703 I wonder how comprehensive it is? These are single line records in a number of huge ledgers. I'm away from my laptop and records at the moment, but from memory they don't give much detail, but give an indication of the type of offence, e.g. drunkenness, or the catch-all 'conduct to the prejudice of molitary discipline' David. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardsProductions99 Posted 31 May , 2022 Author Share Posted 31 May , 2022 It turns out it was staring me in the face in the war diary: He was sent to 'Papot'? to face a FGCM for basically getting legless and walking into a prohibited zone without a pass...whoops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardsProductions99 Posted 31 May , 2022 Author Share Posted 31 May , 2022 Next query, why does it say on ancestry that he is formally 1017 of the 13th Hussars Regiment? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted 31 May , 2022 Share Posted 31 May , 2022 was he a pre war regular, may not then appear on a medal card. I was working on one of my men last night, he has two numbers on his MiC.. on one of his pension cards there is a third number , referenced on the card but no where else. presumably his pre war service record was lost in the blitz along with his war enlistment papers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardsProductions99 Posted 31 May , 2022 Author Share Posted 31 May , 2022 17 minutes ago, chaz said: was he a pre war regular, may not then appear on a medal card. I was working on one of my men last night, he has two numbers on his MiC.. on one of his pension cards there is a third number , referenced on the card but no where else. presumably his pre war service record was lost in the blitz along with his war enlistment papers. Ah that makes sense. The loss of any service record certainly explains the sole utterance of the 13th Hussars there and nowhere else. Wonder what prompted his joining the 32/RF, having been a cavalryman previously? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaySearching Posted 31 May , 2022 Share Posted 31 May , 2022 Next query, why does it say on ancestry that he is formally 1017 of the 13th Hussars Regiment? Stephen first served in the theater of war with the Royal Fusiliers on the 4/5/1916 and Kia 15/9/16 (as medal roll) sometime prior to 4/5/16 he had been serving with the Hussars before being transfered to the Fusiliers Stephen is shown as aged 19 employed as a butcher on the 1911 census Ray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted 31 May , 2022 Share Posted 31 May , 2022 if you notice on my post above, you will see different spelling of surname. Ive not checked, but have you checked the options? reason for mentioning is Ive just done another look for another of my collection and found the following spellings for christian names. 1/ Emmett 2/ Emmitt 3/ Emmill 4/ Emmile 5/ Emmiel all on different record cards, they all refer to the same number and regiment , so no doubt the same man. I could well have bypassed a record as I put in his actual spelling, then just put surname and number, that threw up the options... makes me now wonder about the other 120+ Ive got... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TullochArd Posted 1 June , 2022 Share Posted 1 June , 2022 (edited) 11 hours ago, RichardsProductions99 said: Next query, why does it say on ancestry that he is formally 1017 of the 13th Hussars Regiment? There is possibly a long forgotten NE England/13H recruiting Sergeant featuring somewhere around here. On enlistment he was allocated a 13H Regimental number, which starts the all important pay and record tracking sequence, and was sent home to await being called forward. At some point from actual call up through training, but prior to actual deployment on active service, he was transferred to RF. By 1916 the Hussars and similar units were fair game for weeding out to other units in need of manpower. In May 1916 13H were in France, up to strength and getting ready for re-deployment to India>Mesopotamia. RF would have been the obvious alternative being his local (Durham-ish) infantry unit. I can't see him being a 13H pre-War soldier. His DOB was 1890/1 so he would have to have either been in India with 13H and thus serving in France from 1914 or called up as time served Reservist in UK and re-joining 13H in 1914 ......and we know he was employed as a 19 Year old butcher in 1911. "He was sent to 'Papot'?" Papot is in the area of Pont-d’Achelles Military Cemetery, just NW of Nieppe. Edited 1 June , 2022 by TullochArd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TEW Posted 1 June , 2022 Share Posted 1 June , 2022 The 13th Hussars detail comes originally from 'Soldiers Died In The Great War 1914-1919'. They often give former service details that don't feature anywhere else. His Hussars' number is actually 17017. TEW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TEW Posted 1 June , 2022 Share Posted 1 June , 2022 17000 & 17076 of 13th Hussars attested Aug/Sept 1914. 17000 was discharged in October as unlikely to become an efficient soldier. 17076 was discharged March 1915 medically unfit. Frank Varey Royal Fusiliers GS/16555 KIA 1/7/16 was formerly 17588 13th Hussars. TEW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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