Uniform identification please?

[John Rowley]

This is a (rather poor) photo of a person I think is my grandad, James Rowley. He served in the Royal Field Artillery in WW1. He is shown on various documents as 275 Brigade, B Battalion, and as Worcester Regiment, confusingly as he was from N Yorkshire.

The problem is that the hat badge doesn’t look to me like RFA.

Help lease?

Thanks

[Michelle Young]

Welcome to the forum. Squinting on my phone, it is a fusilier cap badge, possibly Royal Welsh. 

[max7474]

Royal Northumberland Fusiliers.

 

He is not RWF as the flaems are smaller on the RWF badge

Edited 29 May , 2022 by max7474

[John Rowley]

Thanks Michelle. That's set the cat amongst the pigeons….!

[Matlock1418]

1 hour ago, John Rowley said:

I think is my grandad, James Rowley. He served in the Royal Field Artillery in WW1. He is shown on various documents as 275 Brigade, B Battalion, and as Worcester Regiment, confusingly as he was from N Yorkshire.

May be of assistance to all if you can please provide:

• Further personal info: DoB, family details, address(es) etc.
• Where you got your military info from

The more info we have then the more we can check and cross-check to assist you.

Thanks

M

[Michelle Young]

Now I’m home (was in the bar at the cricket club) and can see on a better screen, I’d agree, Northumberland Fusiliers. @FROGSMILE

[John Rowley]

1 hour ago, Matlock1418 said:

May be of assistance to all if you can please provide:

• Further personal info: DoB, family details, address(es) etc.
• Where you got your military info from

The more info we have then the more we can check and cross-check to assist you.

Thanks

M

Hi

I have attached an image from MyHeritage. I have original birth and death certificates. I also have the marriage certificate which also gives regiment and service number. I found additional information from The National Archive medical records (he was invalided from May 1918 to August 1918 - gas poisoning) also attached. He appears to be based at Catterick at that point.

Thank you for your help.

[David26]

Hello John,

welcome to the Forum.  James's service record survives in the 'burnt records' so is available via subscriptions sites, such as Ancestry here: Ancestry.co.uk - UK, British Army World War I Service Records, 1914-1920.  That shows that he enlisted at Halifax on 10 Dec 1915.  He remained in the RFA until two days after the Armistice when he transferred into the Worcs Regt on 13 Nov 1918 and joined their 15th Battalion. 

James's Medal Index Card is here (courtesy of Ancestry) which conforms that he did not go abroad until 1916.

275 Brigade RGA was part of 55 (1 West Lancs) Division and a brief summary can be found here: 

CCLXXV, CCLXXVI, CCLXXVII and CCLXXVIII (Howitzer) Brigades (55th Divisional Artillery) - The Long, Long Trail (longlongtrail.co.uk)

The war diary for the unit is available for download for free from The National Archives here: if you want more detail about what the brigade did:

275 Brigade Royal Field Artillery. War Diaries for July-October 1917 not included.... | The National Archives

The MH106 record you found showing he had been poisoned by gas, indicates that he was most likely a victim of the very heavy use of gas by the Germans as part of their Spring Offensive in March/April 1918.  His service record shows that he was in fact admitted to No.18 General Hospital at Dannes Camiers on 18 March 1918 with gas poisoning.

David.

 

 

 

[FROGSMILE]

1 hour ago, Michelle Young said:

Now I’m home (was in the bar at the cricket club) and can see on a better screen, I’d agree, Northumberland Fusiliers. @FROGSMILE

Yes it’s Northumberland Fusiliers (NF), not ‘Royal’ during WW1, but became so between the wars.  There were three fusilier regiments with that similar shape of grenade badge for other ranks, the other two being the Royal Inniskilling Fusiliers, and the Royal Munster Fusiliers.  Even though there’s a lot of reflected light coming off the badge we can see it’s NF because the ‘circlet’ bearing the regimental title can be discerned, something that the other two regiments badges did not feature.  He also has the one-piece shoulder title, a style that the NF were among the earliest to adopt, so that it was seen quite early in the war.

 

Edited 29 May , 2022 by FROGSMILE

[303man]

Likely the picture is not who you think it is, as there is no indication your relation was Northumberland Fusilier and as you state "I think it is my Grandad", likely another family members picture slipped in over the years.

[John Rowley]

9 hours ago, FROGSMILE said:

Yes it’s Northumberland Fusiliers (NF), not ‘Royal’ during WW1, but became so between the wars.  There were three fusilier regiments with that similar shape of grenade badge for other ranks, the other two being the Royal Inniskilling Fusiliers, and the Royal Munster Fusiliers.  Even though there’s a lot of reflected light coming off the badge we can see it’s NF because the ‘circlet’ bearing the regimental title can be discerned, something that the other two regiments badges did not feature.  He also has the one-piece shoulder title, a style that the NF were among the earliest to adopt, so that it was seen quite early in the war.

 

Thank you. This adds to the mystery!

[John Rowley]

58 minutes ago, 303man said:

Likely the picture is not who you think it is, as there is no indication your relation was Northumberland Fusilier and as you state "I think it is my Grandad", likely another family members picture slipped in over the years.

Yes I think that must be right. However the picture came from my aunt (eldest daughter of James, but with no indication it is him), and it has facial similarities with later pictures of James. It is possible it is a picture of a maternal uncle but the family tree, put together by my late father, makes no reference to a maternal uncle.

A mystery!

[John Rowley]

9 hours ago, David26 said:

Hello John,

welcome to the Forum.  James's service record survives in the 'burnt records' so is available via subscriptions sites, such as Ancestry here: Ancestry.co.uk - UK, British Army World War I Service Records, 1914-1920.  That shows that he enlisted at Halifax on 10 Dec 1915.  He remained in the RFA until two days after the Armistice when he transferred into the Worcs Regt on 13 Nov 1918 and joined their 15th Battalion. 

James's Medal Index Card is here (courtesy of Ancestry) which conforms that he did not go abroad until 1916.

275 Brigade RGA was part of 55 (1 West Lancs) Division and a brief summary can be found here: 

CCLXXV, CCLXXVI, CCLXXVII and CCLXXVIII (Howitzer) Brigades (55th Divisional Artillery) - The Long, Long Trail (longlongtrail.co.uk)

The war diary for the unit is available for download for free from The National Archives here: if you want more detail about what the brigade did:

275 Brigade Royal Field Artillery. War Diaries for July-October 1917 not included.... | The National Archives

The MH106 record you found showing he had been poisoned by gas, indicates that he was most likely a victim of the very heavy use of gas by the Germans as part of their Spring Offensive in March/April 1918.  His service record shows that he was in fact admitted to No.18 General Hospital at Dannes Camiers on 18 March 1918 with gas poisoning.

David.

 

 

 

David, thank you. This is very helpful. I will look at the links you kindly provided.  The missing piece here is why transfer to the Worcesters?

Regards

John

[Michelle Young]

After recovery from wounds or illness, men could be posted anywhere, not necessarily to their parent unit. 

[David26]

20 minutes ago, John Rowley said:

David, thank you. This is very helpful. I will look at the links you kindly provided.  The missing piece here is why transfer to the Worcesters?

Regards

John

John,

the answer lies in his service record: he was give a 'permanent compulsory' transfer to the Worcesters, initially to 1st Garrison Battalion in Dublin, since he was 'surplus to requirements' for the RFA.  He was at that time still in the UK following his evacuation from France on 31 Mar 1918 and his treatment for gas poisoning and had been posted to a Reserve RFA Bde in September 1918.  It is not clear if he was 100% fit at that point.  The Armistice having just been declared, the RFA appears not to have had further need for him, hence his transfer.  But on 10 Dec 1918 he was posted from 1st Garrison Bn to 15th (Transport Workers) Battalion of the Worcesters which was based in Swindon and Southampton.  

There is more detail of his military service and of his marriage in the service record if you have a subscription to Ancestry or Find My Past.  

David

[FROGSMILE]

His dress has all the appearance of a soldier caught in the initial recruiting surge of Kitchener’s New Armies, such portraits with painted encampment as background were patriotic in spirit and popular.  

NB.  Looking at the shoulder title again I think it’s actually the 2-piece earlier type and, along with the standard pattern (not simplified) jacket, but 1914 leather belt, it looks a very early in the war portrait to me.

Edited 30 May , 2022 by FROGSMILE
Erratum

[TullochArd]

1 hour ago, FROGSMILE said:

His dress has all the appearance of a soldier caught in the initial recruiting surge of Kitchener’s New Armies, such portraits with painted encampment as background were patriotic in spirit and popular.  

Agreed ....... and Bamforth of Station Road Holmfirth provides a further tenuous West Yorkshire connection as referred to in the OP. 

I'm delighted to see a Bamforth connection. This firm is renowned for their period "saucy" postcards and painfully sentimental early wartime postcards.  They were also pioneers of short movies such as their later silent comedy (yes - comedy) of 1916 'Zeppelins Over London' until film became so rare that production petered out as the War progressed. 

I can make no Northumberland Fusilier connection to Holmfirth therefore I'm guessing this is an "on Leave" photo.

[FROGSMILE]

21 minutes ago, TullochArd said:

Agreed ....... and Bamforth of Station Road Holmfirth provides a further tenuous West Yorkshire connection as referred to in the OP. 

I'm delighted to see a Bamforth connection. This firm is renowned for their period "saucy" postcards and painfully sentimental early wartime postcards.  They were also pioneers of short movies such as their later silent comedy (yes - comedy) of 1916 'Zeppelins Over London' until film became so rare that production petered out as the War progressed. 

I can make no Northumberland Fusilier connection to Holmfirth therefore I'm guessing this is an "on Leave" photo.

Perhaps 19th Reserve Brigade, who were I think at Ripon and then Harrogate.  A 60 mile trip (44 miles for latter).  The brigade seems to have been made up from battalions formed from the original reserve companies of various service battalions.

Edited 30 May , 2022 by FROGSMILE

[David26]

On his attestation papers in December 1915, James claimed never to have previously done military service.  He may of course not have been telling the truth, if, perhaps, there was something he was seeking to hide, but it adds to the mystery as to who is in the photograph.  

David.

[John Rowley]

5 hours ago, Michelle Young said:

After recovery from wounds or illness, men could be posted anywhere, not necessarily to their parent unit. 

Thanks Michelle, I hadn’t realised that.

regards

John

[John Rowley]

32 minutes ago, David26 said:

On his attestation papers in December 1915, James claimed never to have previously done military service.  He may of course not have been telling the truth, if, perhaps, there was something he was seeking to hide, but it adds to the mystery as to who is in the photograph.  

David.

I am looking into the possibility that it is another relative, but of course a dishonest declaration is another option!

Regards

[John Rowley]

5 hours ago, David26 said:

John,

the answer lies in his service record: he was give a 'permanent compulsory' transfer to the Worcesters, initially to 1st Garrison Battalion in Dublin, since he was 'surplus to requirements' for the RFA.  He was at that time still in the UK following his evacuation from France on 31 Mar 1918 and his treatment for gas poisoning and had been posted to a Reserve RFA Bde in September 1918.  It is not clear if he was 100% fit at that point.  The Armistice having just been declared, the RFA appears not to have had further need for him, hence his transfer.  But on 10 Dec 1918 he was posted from 1st Garrison Bn to 15th (Transport Workers) Battalion of the Worcesters which was based in Swindon and Southampton.  

There is more detail of his military service and of his marriage in the service record if you have a subscription to Ancestry or Find My Past.  

David

Wow, he was moved around a bit! Perhaps his impending transfer had something to do with his marriage (to a local girl in Richmond) in August ‘18.

He suffered with his lungs his whole life, dying of lung cancer at 66 (although smoking may have been a likelier cause).

John

[John Rowley]

15 hours ago, FROGSMILE said:

Yes it’s Northumberland Fusiliers (NF), not ‘Royal’ during WW1, but became so between the wars.  There were three fusilier regiments with that similar shape of grenade badge for other ranks, the other two being the Royal Inniskilling Fusiliers, and the Royal Munster Fusiliers.  Even though there’s a lot of reflected light coming off the badge we can see it’s NF because the ‘circlet’ bearing the regimental title can be discerned, something that the other two regiments badges did not feature.  He also has the one-piece shoulder title, a style that the NF were among the earliest to adopt, so that it was seen quite early in the war.

 

Thank you.

Do these two likely lads have a distinguishable cap badge? (Picture also found in the same collection.)

Regards

[FROGSMILE]

16 minutes ago, John Rowley said:

Thank you.

Do these two likely lads have a distinguishable cap badge? (Picture also found in the same collection.)

Regards

Yes Royal Artillery.  Both have a wound stripe and are wearing overseas service stripes on their lower right sleeves.  They both have the rank of gunner and the fellow on the left has 5-years service without disciplinary sanction marked by the two inverted stripes on his left lower sleeve.  These latter were known as good conduct badges (GCB).  There were four branches of the RA determined by their shoulder titles and unfortunately we cannot see what they are.

Afternote: I agree with Michelle that the fellow with GCB has the ribbon of the 1914 star, so when viewed together with overseas stripes the photo can be dated to 1918+ with some confidence.

Edited 30 May , 2022 by FROGSMILE

[Michelle Young]

Both sporting a wound stripe, one with good conduct chevrons, one with overseas chevrons. Looks like a 14 star ribbon.