Salonika battlefield visit

[IM75]

Evening all. Me and wife are going to be heading to Thessaloniki in a few weeks on a last minute city break and, obviously, I can’t go there without heading out to the battlefields for a explore. We’ll be hiring a car for a full day and just wondered if anyone could recommend a guidebook or just some general advice please?
 

We’ve already pencilled in the main areas, Lake Doiran etc, but we want to get as much in as possible as we’re unlikely to go there again. For those who know the area, where would you suggest? Is it possible to see most of it in a full day?

 

Really looking forward to going as it’s been on my wish list for ages.

 

Thanks in advance!

IM

[Michelle Young]

Tagging @keithmroberts

[keithmroberts]

Wow, I'm sure you will enjoy your visit, but in a day there are considerable limits to what you can do.  The allied forces had most of their combat in what is now North Macedonia, and exploring some of the locations in Greece can be slow because, apart from a very few major roads, the main battlefield areas are best accessed on foot wearing strong footwear.  Lake Doiran is partly in Greece and partly in North Macedonia, meaning that you have passport formalities etc, to deal with, to visit the most substantial locations where our troops attacked the Bulgarians, and you need to check that your Greek car hire contract allows you to cross the border. The Doiran station, used much of the time is in Greece along with Doirani, and the British Memorial to the Missing, but Doiran, and for example, the Devil's Eye, are in North Macedonia as is the whole of the area covered by the Kosturino fighting of 1915. Much of that is only accessible on foot, or at the least 4 wheel drive vehicles. The Salonika Campaign Society generally engage a local farmer to take us part of the way riding in the back of an unsprung trailer behind an elderly tractor before the long walk back from Rocky Peak down to Tatarli, (the walk down probably takes somewhere between 2 and 3 hours, allowing for the fairly slow pace of a group which halts on the way not just for refreshments, but for explanations and descriptions of the geography and history.

You might be wisest to concentrate on the Struma Valley villages that were fought over;  there is not so much to see unless you have a really knowledgeable guide, and even then you will need to make use of detailed maps. There are a few in the British Official History, which is available in digital form from the internet, while a selection can be purchased from the society, but I still struggle to work things out, not least because Greek mapping is very limited in the border areas, and almost all place names have changed. "Modern" roads often bear no relationship to the dirt tracks that show on wartime maps.

I don't want to put you off, I visit every year, in fact I returned from a short visit last week, during which under the expert guidance of Alan Wakefield  a small group followed the experience of two battalions of the Royal Dublin Fusiliers. West of Doiran there are few roads, and it is also easy to end up with discussions with border patrols on the look out for migrants.

I think with a car and just one day, I would drive to the British Memorial to the Missing, and then work down the Struma Valley where several small engagements took place. There are no "Battlefield Guide Books" as only small numbers visit. Apart from the Official History, (2 volumes and 2 map sets), Alan Wakefield's "In the Devil's Eye" is the best modern introduction, and at present only the Salonika Campaign Society have produced a DVD of original mapping. 

It reads as if you are not setting out to follow a particular relative, or a specific unit, which makes it easier. You can get some good views of the main British area from the memorial, and can visit the British and Greek military cemeteries just below the memorial. It is a beautiful area, on both sides of the border, but the moment you move off the beaten track you are dealing with slow walking over rough ground.  Apart from the history, I have come to love the place. There are hardly any guides, and they are very different to those on the Western Front.

I'm happy to chat sometime on Zoom or whatever, but you will realise that although a frequent visitor, I am far from expert.

Keith

The OH has some maps bound in its volumes,and those are included in the digitised version that is free online. The two OH map volumes are hard to find these days, and expensive. I have had them scanned for the Salonika Campaign Society, and I think they are now included in the SCS trench map set of disks.

Edited 23 May , 2022 by keithmroberts
Typos plus an additional comment.

[IM75]

Thanks for such a detailed response Keith - it’s incredibly appreciated.

To be honest, it didn’t occur to me that we wouldn’t be able to cross over the border - that’s a no-go then obviously. We had initially planned to head up to Karasouli to take some photos then over to the Doiran Memorial and have a walk around. As you suggest, I think we’ll then head down the Sturma Valley and back into the city via Kirechkoi-Hortakoi Military Cemetery. A general explore around those areas would probably be preferable anyway as the trip was meant to be a city break and not a battlefield holiday - it’s just a bonus that I’ve managed to wangle a war day out of the itinerary!

I’m reading “Under the Devil’s Eye” again at the moment. I first read it a few years ago and think it’s a fantastic book. I’m also got the OH and some maps and I’ll check out the SCS website.

We’re staying at the Omono hotel in the centre of the city, so I’m trying to find the best hire car option - although there’s a bit of a fly in the works at the moment as we don’t have a credit card and most companies require them for the deposit. We need to find one that accepts debit cards but that’s easier said than done - I don’t suppose you know of anyone who could point us in the right direction?
 

Thanks again for your help, it’s been great.

Iain 

[IM75]

I’ve just purchased the SCS Digital Collection 

[keithmroberts]

Hi Iain

I think your decision is wise, and that it will still fill a full day. Its been a few years since we visited the Kirechkoi-Hortakoi Military Cemetery, but it was immaculately cared for, above even the normal standard, and at the time I was moved to write to the CWGC to share my appreciation.

I'm sorry I can't help with car hire. When we visit , we either travel with a Salonika based member, who takes us around in his somewhat ancient 4x4, or a mature 2 door Corsa with a cracked windscreen, or when we have an SCS group tour,  we book  a book a minibus and driver for a week or so from a company based in N Macedonia through a member/guide based in Strumnitza who makes many of our arrangements. It might be possible to explore something with our member in Thessaloniki, but his vehicles are not comparable to  the condition of a hire car.

In Thessaloniki you might find a visit to the Lembet Road Cemetery interesting, it can be reached easily by bus or taxi.  As I said, if you would like to chat about the location drop me a personal message and we could arrange a zoom or skype conversation sometime.

 

Keith

Edited 24 May , 2022 by keithmroberts

[IM75]

Thanks again Keith - I really appreciate the time you’ve taken to assist.

We’ve managed to sort a hire car out now, which actually worked out cheaper to get for the four days so we’ll have a bit longer to explore now with without having to rush. We can do couple of days driving about now and also save a bit on taxis visiting the cemeteries.
 

I’ve joined the Salonika Campaign Society now and ordered the maps DVD, so I’ll be able to sit down and make some plans once they arrive. It would definitely be good to have a chat at some point before we go - thanks again for the offer.

 

[IM75]

Well we’re back home now after a fantastic time over in Thessaloniki. The food was great, the people were welcoming and the weather was perfect, if a little on the warm side…

 

We made an evening trip up to Kirechkoi-Hortakoi Military Cemetery on the second day and then stopped at Lembet Road on the way back to the hotel. The former was beautifully-cared for by CWGC as always and had a stunning backdrop up in the hills. Lembet Road was fascinating - the contrast between the British, French, Serbian and Italian sections was stark. I could have spent hours there.

 

We then managed to get “up-country” on Wednesday - first stopping at Karasouli and then making our way up to Lake Doiran, where we stopped at the cemetery before heading up to the memorial. The views were fantastic and showed just how exposed the troops were under the gaze of the Bulgarians up the hills on the other side of the border - it was also a little frustrating that we couldn’t get across the border to visit the main areas but hopefully that can be done in the future. The temperature hit 40 degrees at this point and, as out hire car didn’t have air-con, we decided to drive back down to the city - stopping at Sarigol Cemetery on the way. 

 

Having experienced just a few hours of the oppressive heat and seen the inhospitable landscape, I have to say I’ve got an even greater respect for those who lived, fought and died there during the War. It must have been hell.

 

I also just wanted to give a big thanks to Keith for his advice before we went - it was of great help. Hopefully we can get over again and this time arrange for get across the border and explore a bit more!

 

Iain 

 

[keithmroberts]

I'm delighted that you had a good time. The SCS will be going again in late September, and I am really looking forward to that week, as we will be going briefly off piste, to visit a location with no British involvement, Kajmakčalan, which has been on my bucket list for the last 3 or 4 years.

Anyway, as a compensation for not being able to visit the N Macedonian batrtlefields, here is a panoramic image, originally from the IWM, although the reference is not quoted in the unit history in which I found it earlier today.

 

Keith

Edited 27 June , 2022 by keithmroberts
Typos.

[IM75]

Excellent - thanks Keith. It would be great to get over there with the SCS at some point in the future.