How common were the ribbons mistaken?

[tankengine888]

Hello!

im curious how many times medals were flipped around or ribbons used on different medals, e.g

but this is usually from family tinkering with the medals which also makes me wonder how long medal ribbons will last (if you keep them in good nick).

Anyhow, ttfn

[FROGSMILE]

9 hours ago, tankengine888 said:

Hello!

im curious how many times medals were flipped around or ribbons used on different medals, e.g

but this is usually from family tinkering with the medals which also makes me wonder how long medal ribbons will last (if you keep them in good nick).

Anyhow, ttfn

It appears to have been more common for the Victory medal and the British War Medal ribbons to be inadvertently transposed.  This seems to have been a combination of losing the boxes and papers inside and then fitting ribbons subsequently the wrong way around, and later generations fitting them incorrectly through lack of knowledge.  There are of course other explanations too.  The 1914 star and 1914-15 star were undoubtedly more famous medals and more early in the public consciousness, so there seems to have been little if any confusion regarding the correct ribbon, which was of course the same for both. 

Edited 20 May , 2022 by FROGSMILE

[depaor01]

I have a trio where the 1914 star has a bar attached to the ribbon and the rose was stitched underneath by the recipient. 

[FROGSMILE]

36 minutes ago, depaor01 said:

I have a trio where the 1914 star has a bar attached to the ribbon and the rose was stitched underneath by the recipient. 

I think there was a degree of confusion for some about the rosette.  It was intended of course for when the ribbon alone was worn on uniform to differentiate between the two stars.  But if you didn’t have a uniform anymore and yet were determined to emphasise you were an old contemptible then onto the medal and ribbon it would go! 

[depaor01]

31 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said:

I think there was a degree of confusion for some about the rosette.  It was intended of course for when the ribbon alone was worn on uniform to differentiate between the two stars.  But if you didn’t have a uniform anymore and yet were determined to emphasise you were an old contemptible then onto the medal and ribbon it would go! 

I came to a similar conclusion. The set came with his miniatures which of course were private purchase. He was - an Irishman - intent on displaying his awards to best effect regardless of convention, or of the rules. This at a time when perhaps it might not have gone down well in his home country to wear them.

I hope he did.

[FROGSMILE]

7 minutes ago, depaor01 said:

I came to a similar conclusion. The set came with his miniatures which of course were private purchase. He was - an Irishman - intent on displaying his awards to best effect regardless of convention, or of the rules. This at a time when perhaps it might not have gone down well in his home country to wear them.

I hope he did.

Yes I hope he did too.  It pains me when I think how some of those ex regular army (in particular) Irish soldiers suffered.

[squirrel]

My wife's grandfather's DCM and '15 Star trio were kept in a small box by her grandmother. The ribbons had never been fixed to the medals. There was a small piece of card inside the box, in the grandmother's handwriting, detailing which ribbon went with which medal.

[PhilB]

The question arises of what to do with medals wrongly presented when framed. These have two medals the wrong way round and ribbons too long but they`ve been like that for a hundred years and the man`s family were presumably happy with them that way. I haven`t corrected them.

 

 

Edited 20 May , 2022 by PhilB

[Matlock1418]

21 hours ago, tankengine888 said:

And of course the 1914 Star or 1914-15 star riband is often incorrectly swapped [as above]

When worn on the left breast the red strip should be nearest the cente of chest = red, white, blue when viewed

 

And, in my opinion, for most recipients/wearers the 'swing' mounting [1914 Star] would have been the more normal style of mounting for all medals at that period - with 'Court' mounting being reserved for more formal & cermonial scenarios.

M

Edited 21 May , 2022 by Matlock1418

[Guest]

Mates,

I don't know if important, I find the fixing of an MID or more on the trio can be mixed up at times

S.B

[Fromelles]

With the vast majority of men long discharged before receiving their medals I doubt is was so important to some individuals, and families would have been none the wiser.

I remember on a promotion course I attended one of the students (and no it wasn't me) wore his ribands back to front, it wasn't long before it was pointed out in front of the entire course, and we were all regulars.

As to fixing the framed example, I wouldn't change a thing, being 'wrong' is part of its history.

Dan

[depaor01]

Here's my "wrong 'un" mentioned above... Won't be corrected either.

Edited 22 May , 2022 by depaor01

[tankengine888]

3 minutes ago, depaor01 said:

Here's my "wrong 'un" mentioned above... Won't be corrected either.

I do admit, I've seen that atleast once. Atleast it wasn't into the BWM or VM, but I suppose THAT gets the message across with the clasp and rosette. I'd probably do the same if I was clueless!

[depaor01]

Just now, tankengine888 said:

I do admit, I've seen that atleast once. Atleast it wasn't into the BWM or VM, but I suppose THAT gets the message across with the clasp and rosette. I'd probably do the same if I was clueless!

Clueless, or determined! I got these and I'm wearing 'em!

[Matlock1418]

On 20/05/2022 at 17:11, PhilB said:

The question arises of what to do with medals wrongly presented when framed. These have two medals the wrong way round and ribbons too long but they`ve been like that for a hundred years and the man`s family were presumably happy with them that way. I haven`t corrected them.

 

 

The BWM & VM reverses / being that way round certainly makes them more informative than the obverses.

M

[PhilB]

Oddly we have medals stamped with recipient`s name on the reverse side and edges but never on the obverse. Just sayin`

[Interested]

 

Hi TE

The ribbons on all my relatives' medals are original, so over 100 years old (assuming they were sent to the recipients before 1922) and all seem to be in "original" condition.  They are kept in an old tobacco tin (are nicotine fumes a preservative?).

However a silk bookmark "In Memoriam" from 1918 with a photo printed on it has deteriorated where it was folded.  It didn't live in an old tobacco tin.

 

[Kimberley John Lindsay]

Dear All,

My late father, a quietly-spoken Bank Manager, had the the MC and had been Mentioned in Despatches. His large medals (loose), were in the box which still contained his cased MC, sent on his request to his wife - my late mother.

Dad was extremely off-hand about his medals and rarely mentioned his wartime exploits - but would recount amusing stories when asked. However, he always kept a correctly-mounted group of Miniatures, to be worn on formal occasions when the Governor of NSW, or the Governor-General of Australia announced their presence.

This instilled in me a desire to have medals in my collection mounted correctly!

The late Indian Army Lt-Col Morgan Dockrell's group is a case in point. One had the choice: (a) leave it as - or (b) get It right! I chose the latter path...

Kindest regards,

Kim.

 

[tankengine888]

7 hours ago, Kimberley John Lindsay said:

Dear All,

My late father, a quietly-spoken Bank Manager, had the the MC and had been Mentioned in Despatches. His large medals (loose), were in the box which still contained his cased MC, sent on his request to his wife - my late mother.

Dad was extremely off-hand about his medals and rarely mentioned his wartime exploits - but would recount amusing stories when asked. However, he always kept a correctly-mounted group of Miniatures, to be worn on formal occasions when the Governor of NSW, or the Governor-General of Australia announced their presence.

This instilled in me a desire to have medals in my collection mounted correctly!

The late Indian Army Lt-Col Morgan Dockrell's group is a case in point. One had the choice: (a) leave it as - or (b) get It right! I chose the latter path...

Kindest regards,

Kim.

I think that was an as we ‘solid’ decision. It doesn’t look damaged from it! But it would be a shame if they broke when you switched them.

[Kimberley John Lindsay]

Dear All,

Of course in the case of the framed Sidney Fox 15 Trio with Memorial Plaque, it is wise to leave that as it is!

Kindesr tergards,

Kim.

[PhilB]

Sidney Fox was a colliery pony driver, aged 24, KIA 1/7/16. Probably left school at 12ish and went straight down the pit. Not much of a life?

[tankengine888]

5 minutes ago, PhilB said:

Sidney Fox was a colliery pony driver, aged 24, KIA 1/7/16. Probably left school at 12ish and went straight down the pit. Not much of a life?

'Down the pit'.. I remember in 'When the Boat comes in', they went down the pit a bit... I'm happy to live in an age where I don't need to go down a mine to get money.

[Matlock1418]

21 hours ago, PhilB said:

Oddly we have medals stamped with recipient`s name on the reverse side and edges but never on the obverse. Just sayin`

I know, but I was just pointing out on the reverses of the BWM 1914-1918 and VM The Great War for Civilisation 1914-1919 are a bt more informative than the King's V head and Victory on the obverses.

As they are named it's a wonder we don't display them edge on. 

M

[PhilB]

I wasn’t commenting on your post, M, which I agree with.  Just making a general point. I suppose they thought, and think, that the obverse, often having the monarch’s head, shouldn’t be interfered with.

[Matlock1418]

9 minutes ago, PhilB said:

I wasn’t commenting on your post, M, which I agree with.  Just making a general point. I suppose they thought, and think, that the obverse, often having the monarch’s head, shouldn’t be interfered with.