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Seeking a soldier 21st KRR Corps, Soldiers letters


andy2014
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Hi All

Hope you are all well!

I am currently transcribing 3 long original handwritten letters from a soldier to his friend but I don`t have the envelopes.

I Have his details from the wonderful information he has put in his letters but I am curious if there is any lists of men that may identify as his friend?

The chap who wrote the letters was medically discharged and wrote his letters while training and from hospitals.

His Details: Pte Charles William Dickenson ( some records and censuses have Dickinson ) ?

Rank: RFM

Service No: C/12278

Regiment: A Company, 15th Section, 4th Platoon, 21st K.R.R Corps

His friend is merely referred to as Lock, this could be a nickname but I thought it was worth a gamble to see if there was someone with the surname Lock?

I have also just discovered his friend been referred to as Joe as I am transcribing the letters! 

There is a reference too that lock is associated with horses?

There is lots of info in the letters that I can post if anyone is interested? 

Thanks in advance for your time any tips and ideas.

All the best!

Andy 

 

Edited by andy2014
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There are a few MICs and service records for 'Lock' and KRRC.

Finding a Lock in 21st KRRC would seem a good hit although Lock could be an earlier acquaintance in another battalion.

TEW

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1 hour ago, TEW said:

There are a few MICs and service records for 'Lock' and KRRC.

Finding a Lock in 21st KRRC would seem a good hit although Lock could be an earlier acquaintance in another battalion.

TEW

Thanks, as I am sat here now going through these letters I have come across him as been Joe and associated with horses in his regiment so more information coming through! Thanks for your time! 

andy 

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  • andy2014 changed the title to Seeking a soldier 21st KRR Corps, Soldiers letters
Posted (edited)

Here`s the transcript of the first letter...

Dated 26th Feb 2016

26/2/16

                                                                                                            C/12278 A. Company

                                                                                                            15th Section 4th Platoon

                                                                                                            21st K.R.R. Corps

                                                                                                            Barrosa Barracks

                                                                                                            Stanhope Lines

                                                                                                            Aldershot

 

Dear Lock

                        I was delighted to receive your letter of Friday, I was very sorry I did not know your address, when I knew we were leaving for Aldershot, as I knew we should have to join through York. I had a good look round the station when we arrived there, just on the off chance of seeing you, however it wasn`t my luck. Well, we are having very rough weather her at present, about a foot of snow, but I expect you will be having pretty much the same. They are a very decent class of chaps here, I mean in the sense of functionality that you can leave anything laid about, & it is quite safe. All the same I`m lots for a meal pal, the most of them in my section, are either too much one way or the other. I wish, with you, that I was in your lot, & of course, had I had and experience of horses at all, I should have joined up with you, when I had decided to join. Pte Robinson that you told me about me about is not in our coy, He is a fine Lieutenant now, & what is more is he is a very smart officer. It’s no use telling you any of my experiences of camp life, as you have gone through the mill. I am enclosing you a photograph I have had taken as you haven`t had the honours of seeing me in regimentals. There was a report got about here, that we were going back into the northern command, but I`m afraid it is too good to be true, for instance York would be a sensible place, It would be just like old times, having a “better” together again. I think it absolutely scandalous about Joe, don`t you? Fancy him only getting the same time as you white, at my old place. There is no comparison between the two cases, did you hear about F Bulman pleading he was the sole support of his mother, I should say it was the other way about, what you say? I won`t half break his heart, I`m neither glad a lot of them are getting a taste, but such as Joe I am sorry about. Well I don`t think there is anything else I have to say, so will close, with very best wishes.

Your old pal

Charlie

Excuse writing as I`m doing this on my knee, shall be pleased to hear from you at any time, sooner the better.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Edited by andy2014
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2nd letter, very interesting! 

 

Summer 1916

                                                                                                C/12278 21st K.R.R.C.

                                                                                                Ontario Military Hospital

                                                                                                Orpington

                                                                                                Kent

Sunday

 

Dear Lock You will think I have forgotten you altogether, but I have intended writing every day for weeks, but as I particularly detest letter-writing. I have kept putting off, I have been here now for nine weeks, I only had about five in France, & I was quite satisfied, but none the …. Lucky to get out of it. I never got into the trenches but got within about 5 miles, in fact the day our mob went to take trenches over for the first time & I was expecting to be one of them, instead I was sent the opposite way to hospital. The day after we got back from our last leave we went on a divisional route march of 16 miles. It was a blazing hot day, not a breath of wind, & the longest distance we had ever done. To give you some idea of the heat, there was about 5,000 fell out, out of the 20 to 30 thousand troops who took part. When I got back, I didn`t wait to be dismissed, I went straight into the barrack room, & just dropped down in the middle, & dropped there, done to the world. Between then & going out (about a week) I managed to get my foot poisoned, & had it bad during the journey across. We landed at Harve & marched ( I rode on account of my foot) about five miles to a rest camp. This was on the Saturday, on the Sunday morning we marched back to Harve & entrained for 24 hours in horse boxes, 32 of us in one, with all our equipment, my foot still very bad so I think you will understand I shall never forget my journey to France & the trips I got there. When we got out of the horse boxes we had a nine miles march & put up in some barns for the night. Here I had my foot lanced, which soon gave me a good deal of relief. We stayed there another night & then had another march, this time 16 miles, rain pouring down all the way, but when within and 1 ½ miles of our destination, I dropped out & never felt right after. The only bit of real pleasure I had was when I heard I was for blighty. I never for a moment expected it, which made the pleasure all the greater. This is a very nice hospital, but we get very little liberty, & if one never understood what red tape was before, you soon get to know here. It continually smacks you in the face. I hope you are keeping tip-top, also … Harrison & all the little ones. Remember me to Lizzie & Herbert, also to all the boys. Although I seem to have gone dead, I am very often with you all, especially on a Monday & Thursday, Tell H I will drop him a line sometime soon. How does the new orders about time experienced men affect you? I hope you will not get drawn into it again, there is better news every day now, now we can hope for it to be over soon, but they will not give in until they are absolutely forced. Did you read the article in “J.B” this week: “Germany`s great surprise” it sounds quite feasible when you take into consideration their wonderful organisation. Well I must draw to a close, hoping that I haven`t wearied you with my problems. Don`t keep me waiting as long as I`ve kept you. Remember what the good book says. Return good for evil.

Yours Very Sincerely

Charlie

 

 

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3rd and last letter...

Dec 1916

                                                                                                            The Sanitorium

                                                                                                            Aysgarth

                                                                                                            Bermondsey

 

Deat Lock

You will again think that I have forgotten you but I thought I would wait & see how things went on before writing. I am pleased to say I am getting on fine & putting on weight every week. I have also good reason to think more than ever that I have nothing wrong so far as T.B is concerned. My weight to-day, at least up to last Wednesday (we get weighed ever Wednesday, so I may have put a bit more on this wek) was 9st 11 1/2lb, not a fighting weight by any means, but still it is just 171/2 lb more than my normal weight before I joined up and about 15lb more than when I was at my heaviest when I joined the army. I don`t … much about the management of the place, there is too much of a clique, & it seems to me to be more for profit absolutely. We never see a fire or any other kind of heating apparatus either, either in the bedrooms or anywhere else. I had a proper row yesterday in the dining hall at breakfast time. One of the staff who gets his meals with us, the general … about the place, opened a big window right opposite me. There was any icy north east wind coming from right in so I stood it for about three minutes and then got up and went to shut it, when one of the nurses told me I was not to shut the window, so I boiled of course, & I told her if the window had to stay open, I would leave the table & invited the action to the ward, & I went straight out. I learned after that several of the chaps got up and went for their overcoats & that one had to shut the offending window. They were closed this morning so it has coincidentally borne fruit. Well Lock I hope you are keeping tip-top, also is Harrison & the baby. How`s Herbert getting on with munitions, I see they are going to be able to have xmas holidays, … doubt due indirectly to Herbert’s abilities. Remember me to all the boys, & tell them it is just possible I shall be at home, to see the New Year with them. I am writing in the open & my hands are very cold so excuse more at present ………

Yours Sincerely

Charles

 

 

 

 

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There are some Joseph Lock medal records including three to ASC which leans towards the horse connection. No guarentee that Lock served abroad though.

Perhaps a genealogical route might be easier, trying to link Harrison, Lizzie & Herbert to Lock.

TEW

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There is a record, no more than a scrap of paper listing names, one of which is a J Lock, #R21204, 16th Btn KRRC on Find My Past. (see image, courtesy of FMP)

There is a second record which is an entry in the Admission and Discharge Register for No 3 CCS -- it shows that he was admitted on the 24 September 1918 with GSW IX and transferred the next day on AT 12 (Ambulance Train 12)

Long, Long Trail shows GSW IX as 'Gunshot wounds of the lower extremities'

This could be the man referred to in the letters.

 

Lock, J.jpg

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Incidently, the LLT says of the 21/KRRC:

Formed in September 1915 from volunteers from the farming communities of Yorkshire, Northumberland and Durham by the Northern Command. Moved to Duncombe Park at Helmsley.

That slightly narrows down an area for Lock.

TEW

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14 minutes ago, Allan1892 said:

This could be the man referred to in the letters.

Can be discounted -- I have just found him in the Medal Rolls and his MIC -- this man is James Lock.

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14 hours ago, andy2014 said:

I think it absolutely scandalous about you Joe, don`t you? Fancy him only getting...

I think Joe and Lock are two different people.

The transcript above as an additional 'you' before Joe which is not in the original letter.

Joe is referred to in the third person in the letter.

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10 hours ago, TEW said:

There are some Joseph Lock medal records including three to ASC which leans towards the horse connection. No guarentee that Lock served abroad though.

Perhaps a genealogical route might be easier, trying to link Harrison, Lizzie & Herbert to Lock.

TEW

Great, Thanks for that, will look! 

10 hours ago, TEW said:

There are some Joseph Lock medal records including three to ASC which leans towards the horse connection. No guarentee that Lock served abroad though.

Perhaps a genealogical route might be easier, trying to link Harrison, Lizzie & Herbert to Lock.

TEW

Good idea, Thanks

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5 hours ago, Alan24 said:

I think Joe and Lock are two different people.

The transcript above as an additional 'you' before Joe which is not in the original letter.

Joe is referred to in the third person in the letter.

Well spotted! I was looking at them for hours so bleary eyed after a bit! Well done!

Thanks! 

10 hours ago, Allan1892 said:

There is a record, no more than a scrap of paper listing names, one of which is a J Lock, #R21204, 16th Btn KRRC on Find My Past. (see image, courtesy of FMP)

There is a second record which is an entry in the Admission and Discharge Register for No 3 CCS -- it shows that he was admitted on the 24 September 1918 with GSW IX and transferred the next day on AT 12 (Ambulance Train 12)

Long, Long Trail shows GSW IX as 'Gunshot wounds of the lower extremities'

This could be the man referred to in the letters.

 

Lock, J.jpg

Great, Thanks for your time, I will look into him! 

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On 12/05/2022 at 22:58, andy2014 said:

I Have his details ....

His Details: Pte Charles William Dickenson ( some records and censuses have Dickinson )

Andy, who do you think this is in civilian life?

The key to finding Lock is to know where Charlie came from.

There is also some confusion over his name.

Silver War Badge index card & roll have Dickinson.

MIC and Medal Roll have Dickenson. 

FreeBMD have a Charles William Dickinson birth registered Q2 1895 in the Dewsbury registration district. 

I had thought it related to 1911 census entry for Charles W Dickinson who lived in High Ackworth, Yorkshire. However this was a transcription error by Ancestry and the 1911 census should be for Charles David Dickinson who was killed with 2/4 KOYLI in 1918 and is on the Ackworth War Memorial. 

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14 minutes ago, Alan24 said:

The key to finding Lock is to know where Charlie came from.

#12278 Pte Charles William Dickinson was admitted to the 139th Field Ambulance on the 11 May 1916 with 'General Exhaustion'. He was transferred the next day to the 12th Casualty Clearing Station. His entry shows that he was 35 years of age, had been in the Army for 5 months and only 6 days in the field.

His age of 35 years suggest him being born in 1880 / 1881 -- a search of the civil registrations comes up with:

Charles William DickEnson -- December quarter 1881 -- Pancras district

Charles William DickInson -- March quarter 1881 -- Dewsbury district

Charles William DickInson -- September quarter 1881 -- Camberwell district

If @andy2014 can give a clue as to where #12278 came from, we may be able to assist further.

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On 13/05/2022 at 04:28, andy2014 said:

Remember me to Lizzie & Herbert, also to all the boys.

I think this may be Trixie not Lizzie?

On 13/05/2022 at 04:28, andy2014 said:

How does the new orders about time experienced men affect you? I hope you will not get drawn into it again,

This should read 'Time Expired Men'. Lock must have had pre-war military service and by this time (Autumn 1916) had been released as he had completed his commitment and was now wondering if he was to be conscripted back into the Army following the Military Service Act 1916.

Lock had also "gone through the mill" and was well aware of camp life so I wonder if Lock had already served overseas having been mobilised in Aug 1914?

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5 minutes ago, Allan1892 said:

#12278 Pte Charles William Dickinson was admitted to the 139th Field Ambulance on the 11 May 1916 with 'General Exhaustion'. He was transferred the next day to the 12th Casualty Clearing Station. His entry shows that he was 35 years of age, had been in the Army for 5 months and only 6 days in the field.

His age of 35 years suggest him being born in 1880 / 1881 -- a search of the civil registrations comes up with:

Charles William DickEnson -- December quarter 1881 -- Pancras district

Charles William DickInson -- March quarter 1881 -- Dewsbury district

Charles William DickInson -- September quarter 1881 -- Camberwell district

If @andy2014 can give a clue as to where #12278 came from, we may be able to assist further.

That's good info Allan. I had assumed a younger man so this changes things.

The area must be Yorkshire so the Dewsbury connection is worth looking into. 

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9 minutes ago, Allan1892 said:

#12278 Pte Charles William Dickinson was admitted to the 139th Field Ambulance on the 11 May 1916 with 'General Exhaustion'. He was transferred the next day to the 12th Casualty Clearing Station. His entry shows that he was 35 years of age, had been in the Army for 5 months and only 6 days in the field.

His age of 35 years suggest him being born in 1880 / 1881 -- a search of the civil registrations comes up with:

Charles William DickEnson -- December quarter 1881 -- Pancras district

Charles William DickInson -- March quarter 1881 -- Dewsbury district

Charles William DickInson -- September quarter 1881 -- Camberwell district

If @andy2014 can give a clue as to where #12278 came from, we may be able to assist further.

In August 1922 he was resident at
image.png
https://www.fold3.com/image/645869161?terms=12278

image.png

https://www.fold3.com/image/643484749?terms=dickinson,12278



Craig

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In 1921 that man is living with an Ethel Margaret.
image.png


Craig

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The 1891; 1901 and 1911 Census shows he was born in Guisborough. Parents Jacob and Emma.

1891 shows DickEnson and the other two show DickInson

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14 minutes ago, Allan1892 said:

#12278 Pte Charles William Dickinson was admitted to the 139th Field Ambulance on the 11 May 1916 with 'General Exhaustion'. He was transferred the next day to the 12th Casualty Clearing Station. His entry shows that he was 35 years of age, had been in the Army for 5 months and only 6 days in the field.

His age of 35 years suggest him being born in 1880 / 1881 --

I think this is a pretty good fit.

Single man aged 30 in 1911 living with mother. Grocer's Assistant. 

Living in Guisborough

Chas Wm Dickinson

 

cwd.JPG

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Just now, Allan1892 said:

The 1891; 1901 and 1911 Census shows he was born in Guisborough. Parents Jacob and Emma.

1891 shows DickEnson and the other two show DickInson

The snippet it gives for the 1921 census also shows "Emma and Mary Ann are on this record"

Craig

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Married Ethel M Clark Sept quarter 1914.

John Charles living with him in 1921 is his elder brother

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2 minutes ago, Allan1892 said:

Married Ethel M Clark Sept quarter 1914.

Pension card posted by Craig shows single upon discharge.

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