Help mic 1st London regiment Egypt 30/8/15

[wulsten]

Looking at this chaps mic unit 1st London regiment, (Royal fus)? States first theatre Egypt 30/8/15, however looking at war diary if correct download unit location was France, any help with details of this mic or Arthur George Fry would be appreciated, (papers available NA)

[Acknown]

He has two medal roll entries, one for each number. The VM/BWM one [Ancestry] states: 

• [Theatre] 4a [African Theatre - British East Africa, German East Africa, Rhodesia, Nyasaland and Uganda]: 30/08/15 - 17/09/15. This conflicts with the MIC, but anyway, he was only there for 18 days. 
• [Theatre] 2b [Balkan Theatre - Gallipoli and Aegean Island]: 19/09/15 - 02/01/16. I suspect that he transitioned through Egypt as an individual reinforcement where he joined one of the London regiments in Gallipoli. Needs more research. 

Acknown

Addition: I think that the only London battalion in Gallipoli on 17 Sep 15 was 1/10th (County of London) Battalion.

Edited 8 May , 2022 by Acknown

[wulsten]

6 hours ago, Acknown said:

He has two medal roll entries, one for each number. The VM/BWM one [Ancestry] states: 

• [Theatre] 4a [African Theatre - British East Africa, German East Africa, Rhodesia, Nyasaland and Uganda]: 30/08/15 - 17/09/15. This conflicts with the MIC, but anyway, he was only there for 18 days. 
• [Theatre] 2b [Balkan Theatre - Gallipoli and Aegean Island]: 19/09/15 - 02/01/16. I suspect that he transitioned through Egypt as an individual reinforcement where he joined one of the London regiments in Gallipoli. Needs more research. 

Acknown

Addition: I think that the only London battalion in Gallipoli on 17 Sep 15 was 1/10th (County of London) Battalion.

Acknown, thanks for reply will try to get my head around it

[clk]

Hi Wulsten,

His medal rolls show:

Looking at the LLT, the "best fit" for the Gallipoli dates would seem to be for the 2/1 Bn.  Their war diary shows:

The war diary for the Embarkation Officer (Mudros) shows:

All images sourced from Ancestry

Regards
Chris

[wulsten]

Chris, very many thanks very much appreciated 

[pjwmacro]

On 08/05/2022 at 10:47, Acknown said:

I think that the only London battalion in Gallipoli on 17 Sep 15 was 1/10th (County of London) Battalion

I am not sure if this is correct  - 2nd/1st are mentioned in the later posts and my grandfather William Charles Venmore was also Gallipoli  around this time, with, I think (need to check), 3rd/1st London. (There were are lot of London Regt Bns and I have always found the nomenclature very confusing!)

Regards, Paul

[Acknown]

Removed.

 

Edited 11 May , 2022 by Acknown

[Acknown]

12 hours ago, pjwmacro said:

I am not sure if this is correct

Thanks. I took it from the LLT: http://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/regiments-and-corps/the-british-infantry-regiments-of-1914-1918/london-regiment/. However, as Chris informs us above, other London battalions landed in MUDROS a few days later. If their medal awards are deemed to have commenced when they left EGYPT (say, 19 Sep) then there are other options: 2/1st arrived in MUDROS on 25 Sep and 2/3rd on 21 Sep. Others arrived in Oct. According to LLT, 3/1st was not at Gallipoli.

However, earlier in the WD from which Chris's extract derives, it states:

That is, arrived at MUDROS, which I assume was part of the operational theatre and where medal award dates commenced. I can't uncover the 1/10th Londons WD to check if the battalion received reinforcements on 19 Sep.

I still claim that it's possible that Fry was an individual reinforcement, but glad to be corrected by further evidence/experts! It's possible that the Medal Roll is incorrect.

Acknown

Additions:

• I misread the extract above; no mention of reinforcements for 54th Division (1/10th Londons). Waters now muddier.
• But 2/3rd Londons arrived on 18 Sep. Perhaps a better fit if medal-earning commenced at MUDROS?

Edited 11 May , 2022 by Acknown

[TEW]

Just to add.

There have been posts on 14-15 Star entry dates for Egypt, I found a MIC for a RAMC man who entered that theatre BEFORE he had enlisted. A trawl of service records showed that the disembarkation roll was compiled much later, perhaps cobbled together.

Secondly, Fry also has an Officer's roll for BWM & Victory.

It seems he had all three medals as an OR circa 1922 and then the pair as an officer in 1925?

The NW/2 refs equate to his application, surnames F-L as an OR. NW/6 would be F-L for officers. There are two NW/2 ref numbers on his MIC.

No idea why he applied as an OR in 1922.

The EF/9 is awkward as EF9 is the form used by officers to apply for medals but it's also used for admin on 'Policy and eligibility on units and individual cases'. I'd say his EF/9 ref is the latter.

I suspect there was a muddle due to his commission which got further muddled with suspect disembarkation rolls and a lot of correspondance regarding his dates and theatres.

TEW

[wulsten]

I also found a fellow officer mic which gives sames date for egypt, believe 2nd Londons later commissioned and served 1st London