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Remembered Today:

Paired Regimentals.................


ersatz
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Since the weather has been dreary for 2 days, I thought I'd wipe down some blades and take pics of the duplicate regiments I've gathered.  Here goes:

1898 nA Plain Blades:  102.R.6.241., SAXON, GR03    
                                    102.R.3.15., SAXON, FA05 matching.

98/05 aA:  Sawback, VIII.14.4.K.13., W15
                 Plain Blade, VIII.14.2.K.194., W15

88/98:  ERSATZ, 40A4B41, Sawback EB42
            98/05 aA Sawback, W15, 40. ? 4B.69.  This marking I strongly feel belongs with the 88/98.  I would like to know why there is a void where a character should be.

98/05 nA Sawbacks:  28.A.1.61.,W16
                                  28.A.3.23., W16

1898 nA:  Plain Blade, 55.R.12.238., W06
                Sawback, 55.R.8.1., W06

98/05 nA Transitionals:  Sawback, 164.R.5.140., W15
                                      Plain Blade, 164R.12.142., W15

I know I'm grasping at straws, but my hope is to find a bayonet from the same regiment, same company, and a consecutive weapon Nr.  Does anyone have matching regimentals of their own, or to any of the above?
 

102R.JPG

VIII14.JPG

40.JPG

28A.JPG

55R.JPG

164R.JPG

Edited by ersatz
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Thanks for posting! Neither my budget nor my small flat and storage space support the buying of a few bayonets every so often, and so I have no matching regimentals...

Interesting to see the variety of fonts on these from the same regiment. Officially all dies for weapon marking had to come from Gewehrfabrik Danzig and were to be replaced once it became difficult to see clearly the smaller numbers.

Julian

Edited by trajan
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Very nice comparation pieces, the prewar marked pieces are done per manual and direction, on the war pieces is already a variety of special not standart markings. as smaller size and missing letters or additional letters which normally was not used.

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3 hours ago, AndyBsk said:

Very nice comparation pieces, the prewar marked pieces are done per manual and direction, on the war pieces is already a variety of special not standart markings. as smaller size and missing letters or additional letters which normally was not used.

Indeed. It would also - if only we had enough examples! - help us trace patterns of bayonet supply to individual regiments. As Carter has shown, without developing the point, bayonets generally arrived at regiments in 'job-lots' of more than one maker in different years. Bayonets with an identical die presumably arrived at or close to each other, those with a different font later or earlier. Of course, it would be impossible to prove such was the case, but...!!!   

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Thank you trajan & AndyB for your comments.  Much appreciated.  It is interesting that the 164th regimental pieces are both Transitional 98/05's and made by C.G. Haenel in 1915.  

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49 minutes ago, ersatz said:

Thank you trajan & AndyB for your comments.  Much appreciated.  It is interesting that the 164th regimental pieces are both Transitional 98/05's and made by C.G. Haenel in 1915.  

That's interesting! According to http://wiki-de.genealogy.net/IR_164 the 4. Hannoversches Infanterie-Regiment Nr. 164 established a replacement battalion of 4 companies and two recruit depots. after going into the field in 1914. Given the shortage of bayonets at the time these could have come to the regiment late summer 1915 via these detatchments. The '164.R' on these look identical, from the same die?

Julian

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There is possible the unit armorer got the items by moving to different area and preparing the unit for fight. That is well known described by Wiki site. It came from one bunch probably in same timeframe. 164 Stamps dies looks identical on both pieces.

Edited by AndyBsk
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Very nice!!! 

I have only 1 speciment from each unit marking. 

I will post my unit markings when i will be back home. 

Regards

D. 

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On 07/05/2022 at 22:43, ersatz said:

Since the weather has been dreary for 2 days, I thought I'd wipe down some blades and take pics of the duplicate regiments I've gathered.  Here goes:

1898 nA Plain Blades:  102.R.6.241., SAXON, GR03    
                                    102.R.3.15., SAXON, FA05 matching.

98/05 aA:  Sawback, VIII.14.4.K.13., W15
                 Plain Blade, VIII.14.2.K.194., W15

88/98:  ERSATZ, 40A4B41, Sawback EB42
            98/05 aA Sawback, W15, 40. ? 4B.69.  This marking I strongly feel belongs with the 88/98.  I would like to know why there is a void where a character should be.

98/05 nA Sawbacks:  28.A.1.61.,W16
                                  28.A.3.23., W16

1898 nA:  Plain Blade, 55.R.12.238., W06
                Sawback, 55.R.8.1., W06

98/05 nA Transitionals:  Sawback, 164.R.5.140., W15
                                      Plain Blade, 164R.12.142., W15

I know I'm grasping at straws, but my hope is to find a bayonet from the same regiment, same company, and a consecutive weapon Nr.  Does anyone have matching regimentals of their own, or to any of the above?
 

102R.JPG

VIII14.JPG

40.JPG

28A.JPG

55R.JPG

164R.JPG

Hallo,

My bayonet 98/05 with 164 Regiment markings. I saw 164 R. on 1898 n.a, but but that's not weird. I have a photo of soldiers from one team, half of whom have 98/05 a.A. bayonets. and the second 1898. 

In the next post my "brothers" 

Best regards Rafal

P1260638.JPG

P1260639.JPG

P1260640.JPG

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My "brothers"

I think 3 P but armorer used small letter r  

Best Rafal

 

P1260628.JPG

P1260626.JPG

P1260627.JPG

P1260721.JPG

P1260723.JPG

P1260724.JPG

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And another very interesting set ... 

 

Raf

P1250307.JPG

P1260435.JPG

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Interesting bayonets and marking, thanks for sharing it.

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4 hours ago, Rafal1971 said:

And another very interesting set ... 

 

Raf

P1250307.JPG

P1260435.JPG

That is my dream!!! 

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Rafal, thanks for posting your 164th Regt. example.   Your other examples are interesting as well.  I guess the Landwehr Ersatz Battalions were a catch-all of different style weapons by the markings on the Portuguese & ersatz bayonets.   The 98/05's pieces have me baffled ?   The 3 P 3 272 Plain blade by WKC has a Pioneer marking, unless the P is a partially struck character and should be an R.   I was under the impression that Pioneer marked bayonets were all sawbacks.  

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By Pioneer Battalions is normal  that part of the unit was equiped with non sawback bayonets, this was already in prewar period too.

By E.L.85 is there only basic depot number, when not any associated weapon number here visible.

Edited by AndyBsk
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Period photos show that the Landwehr units used a great many foreign bayonets. The Portuguese bayonet is adapted to 1888. One more photo, marking E.B.85 on a completely different type of ersatz bayonet. It comes from the Internet. Armorer used the same punch on all the bayonet

jgf.jpg

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Portuguese Kropatschek should have then redrilled MRD to 17,4mm. The die stamps looks identical on the presented pieces. When not serialed to exact rifle, the pieces were probably unit local depot stamped by Armorer as property of the unit.

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Mine has a partially milled ring (like in Roy's book)

IMG_0623.JPG

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Thanks for adding the pictures, yes looks like drilled out to larger diameter. I assume the rifle slot is wout any changes.

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Thank you Rafal and AndyB for making me aware of plain blade bayonets being marked to Pioneer troops.  I have NEVER come across an actual Pioneer marked plain blade, nor have I seen one except the example presented by Rafal.   They must be scarce.  I'll have to put this on my Want List as well.   Always learning something new in the field of collecting.  Thanks guys!

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Pleasure

In the end, I couldn't control myself.

Photo from the Roy Wiliams collection posted on the website.

I don't think he would mind.

WWVCSt.jpg

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Yes that is extremely hard to find similar consecutive numbers, anyway it looks like all from same producer in same configuration, so they would remains anywhere in depot. Thanks for sharing.

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Hello;

Cześć Rafal1971

3 r 3 272 its not a marking Pioneer Battalion . Proof of equipment Prussia Pioneer Company in 1914, quantity  S98/05m.S. with saw- 258, S71 o.s without saw-3

 

Edited by bert.f
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9 hours ago, Rafal1971 said:

Pleasure

In the end, I couldn't control myself.

Photo from the Roy Wiliams collection posted on the website.

I don't think he would mind.

WWVCSt.jpg

Yes, Rafal, those are beautiful examples of consecutively numbered bayonets and scarce Naval issue pieces to boot..................  Thanks for contributing!

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About the 3P or 3R i dont see there remains of R lower part of letter.So the P letter could be too real.

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