RMLI queries

[domwalsh]

Afternoon.

I'm researching CH.19031 Pte EA Murton RMLI, who took part in the Zeebrugge Raid and later served in France (and briefly switched to short service as CH.3408-s-)

I have a number of queries:

1. There's lots of scribbled pencil under his main list of ships which pertains to his time with Victory V. I can just about make out Dover and Calais, but wondered whether Horatio might have details?

2. Murton's name is Edmund Alec Murton on his ADM159 but elsewhere is Edmund Alexander Murton. Not sure which is correct.

3. In addition to the ADM171 roll showing a BWM & VM, there is WO372/14/164034  (attached) which has reference to his post-war service as a Metropolitan police constable. The MEPO4 files say he served in the police from 29/12/19 to 31/12/45. Am a bit perplexed at why there's a WO372 when he was RMLI throughout WW1, and the police reference to "roll of PCs entitled to medals" seems odd.

4. Presume his police service throughout WW2 would entitle him to a Defence & War Medal???      

Thanks to National Archives for the image.

Any help gratefully received.

Dom

Edited 1 May , 2022 by domwalsh

[seaJane]

Hi Dom,

He seems to have been recorded as Edmund Alexander at birth; 1901 and 1911 censuses don't give him a middle name at all.

Regards,

sJ

[horatio2]

Dom, I cannot provide much help I am afraid:

Q1.  Those faded pencil entries are a most unhelpful feature of many RMLI and RNAS records. Often, it is only by studying the original ADM 188.159 documentat Kew that any sense can be obtained. I can make nothing of the online versions. In this case, even the VICTORY V entry is hedged with uncertainty because I have never found a definite description of that division of the VICTORY Pay Office. There are  VICTORY V references/connections to RMLI men serving in the RND. So I have no suggestions as to how he was employed between 30 Sep 18 and 5 Jul 19.

Q2.  Edmund Alec in my records, Where does he appear as Alexander?

Q3.  My best guess is thatall Met medal claims were passed to the WO, who raised a card even though the Admiralty issued the medals in this case.

The Fleet Airm Musuem has an Attestation Pack of papers for this man, which may provide some additional detail.

His discharge to short service for demob was done because, when he first enlisted in early September 1914, the option tojoin for short service/duration of the war was not available and he had to engage for 12 years Continuous Service. Transfer to Short Service for demob was quite common for the early volunteers.

 

[domwalsh]

34 minutes ago, seaJane said:

Hi Dom,

He seems to have been recorded as Edmund Alexander at birth; 1901 and 1911 censuses don't give him a middle name at all.

Regards,

sJ

Thanks Jane

[domwalsh]

17 minutes ago, horatio2 said:

Dom, I cannot provide much help I am afraid:

Q1.  Those faded pencil entries are a most unhelpful feature of many RMLI and RNAS records. Often, it is only by studying the original ADM 188.159 documentat Kew that any sense can be obtained. I can make nothing of the online versions. In this case, even the VICTORY V entry is hedged with uncertainty because I have never found a definite description of that division of the VICTORY Pay Office. There are  VICTORY V references/connections to RMLI men serving in the RND. So I have no suggestions as to how he was employed between 30 Sep 18 and 5 Jul 19.

Q2.  Edmund Alec in my records, Where does he appear as Alexander?

Q3.  My best guess is thatall Met medal claims were passed to the WO, who raised a card even though the Admiralty issued the medals in this case.

The Fleet Airm Musuem has an Attestation Pack of papers for this man, which may provide some additional detail.

His discharge to short service for demob was done because, when he first enlisted in early September 1914, the option tojoin for short service/duration of the war was not available and he had to engage for 12 years Continuous Service. Transfer to Short Service for demob was quite common for the early volunteers.

 

Hi Horatio.

Jane has confirmed he's noted as Edmund Alexander on censuses. Also on England and Wales births.

Your theory on the Mepo-related medal card makes perfect sense.

Thanks also for the explanation of the brief short service records. I have come across others so that's useful.

All the best

Dom

Sorry. Jane has confirmed the Alexander name on births only, NOT censuses. In fact, Alexander is also used on Mepo 4 record.

D

[butler]

I have found 'Comm Met Pol fwds roll of PCs entitled to medals 12.1.21' on a number of MICs.

I have presumed the roll was submitted by the Metropolitan Police in an effort to get medals issued to their police officer ahead of others who were no longer serving in the military