Home leave on the Western Front

[JohnWH]

Once again I'm stumped! Can anyone tell me, or point me in the right direction, whether soldiers serving the whole war period at the front were ever given the opportunity to return home to England for leave. I believe regiments were rotated and given some form of leave within France and Belgium, but I can't find reference to home visits for non-officers. Anyone?

Many thanks

[Alisonmallen62]

I know my husbands grandfather whilst in France came home in 1917 to marry.  He was involved in a lot of battles so I guess the wedding was organised when he notified home he was returning during a rest spell. 

[FROGSMILE]

2 hours ago, JohnWH said:

Once again I'm stumped! Can anyone tell me, or point me in the right direction, whether soldiers serving the whole war period at the front were ever given the opportunity to return home to England for leave. I believe regiments were rotated and given some form of leave within France and Belgium, but I can't find reference to home visits for non-officers. Anyone?

Many thanks

Soldiers were not allowed on leave until 1915, partly because the fierce fighting and early movement meant it was impossible to organise, but also because it had been believed by higher command that the war would be finished by the end of 1914, and so no administrative preparation had been made.

However, in the autumn of 1916, troops were permitted three annual leave periods, and in 1917 and 1918, the length of the leave periods was increased.  There are some good images of soldiers travelling on leave here: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4791800/amp/Photos-reveal-British-troops-enjoying-break-WWI.html

For further detail, including soldiers accounts, see: https://www.iwm.org.uk/history/voices-of-the-first-world-war-home-on-leave

Photo courtesy of IWM (Q 30402)

Edited 30 April , 2022 by FROGSMILE

[tullybrone]

On 30/04/2022 at 05:10, JohnWH said:

Once again I'm stumped! Can anyone tell me, or point me in the right direction, whether soldiers serving the whole war period at the front were ever given the opportunity to return home to England for leave. I believe regiments were rotated and given some form of leave within France and Belgium, but I can't find reference to home visits for non-officers. Anyone?

Many thanks

If you look at surviving service records leave to U.K. is always recorded on the B103. Usually 10 days to include travelling time (more for residents of Ireland &Scotland). A regular soldier retained in the service under MSA 1916 (serving past 12 year commitment + 1 year) received a months U.K. leave.

 

Steve

[JMB1943]

JohnWH,

My father, at age 5, remembered his father coming home on leave complete with sheepskin/goatskin jacket in winter of 1916/17.

Regards,

JMB

 

[FROGSMILE]

13 minutes ago, JMB1943 said:

JohnWH,

My father, at age 5, remembered his father coming home on leave complete with sheepskin/goatskin jacket in winter of 1916/17.

Regards,

JMB

 

I recall you posting that before JMB.  I wouldn’t want to dismiss the memories of a little boy of 5, but he simply wouldn’t have been permitted to travel like that.  Perhaps he had the skin in his kitbag (but that would take up too much room), or perhaps in reality it was a photograph that he recalled, but then transferred into a different facet of memory.  I mean no offence when I say this.  It’s just an interesting thing to consider.

Edited 1 May , 2022 by FROGSMILE

[AndrewSid]

Three annual leave periods a year from France seems higher than from what I’ve seen in service records.  There is the occasional reference to a period of furlough (10 days) but I’ve never seen three a year for those that were able to remain in the front lines for that long.  Infantry Battalion war diaries also make mention of soldiers on leave but usually in single digit numbers at any one time. It was obviously ops temp permitting.

On the flip side a relative whose record survives shows no leave to the uk despite two years in France with the infantry but a family story of his mother burning his uniform as it was lice ridden before reporting it to the local police is present so it’s thought he made it home at least once. 
 

interesting topic 

Edited 1 May , 2022 by AndrewSid

[FROGSMILE]

35 minutes ago, AndrewSid said:

Three annual leave periods a year from France seems higher than from what I’ve seen in service records.  There is the occasional reference to a period of furlough (10 days) but I’ve never seen three a year for those that were able to remain in the front lines for that long.  Infantry Battalion war diaries also make mention of soldiers on leave but usually in single digit numbers at any one time. It was obviously ops temp permitting.

On the flip side a relative whose record survives shows no leave to the uk despite two years in France with the infantry but a family story of his mother burning his uniform as it was lice ridden before reporting it to the local police is present so it’s though he made it home at least once. 
 

interesting topic 

The intended entitlement wasn’t necessarily achieved I don’t think.  It depended upon circumstances for the respective battalions.  I’m sure we’ve all read of men having their leave cancelled.  As always leave was a privilege and not a guaranteed right.  The three periods seem to have been a target for an ideal scenario. 

Edited 1 May , 2022 by FROGSMILE

[JMB1943]

1 hour ago, FROGSMILE said:

I recall you posting that before JMB.  I wouldn’t want to dismiss the memories of a little boy of 5, but he simply wouldn’t have been permitted to travel like that.  Perhaps he had the skin in his kitbag (but that would take up too much room), or perhaps in reality it was a photograph that he recalled, but then transferred into a different facet of memory.  I mean no offence when I say this.  It’s just an interesting thing to consider.

Frogsmile,

Absolutely NO offence taken, and yes I have posted it at least once previously.

I repeated the story here to provide a personal account to the OP, rather than a "what was allowed by Regulations" response.

My father repeated the story to me more than once, and there was never a mention of remembering a kit-bag (or a rifle for that matter) or having seen him in a photo.

The family was too poor to own a camera, let alone to have a studio photo taken; I have no photos of my g'dad from that time period.

The reason that I believe my father's account, is that it was the last time that he would see his father for a very long time.

Regards,

JMB

[FROGSMILE]

22 minutes ago, JMB1943 said:

Frogsmile,

Absolutely NO offence taken, and yes I have posted it at least once previously.

I repeated the story here to provide a personal account to the OP, rather than a "what was allowed by Regulations" response.

My father repeated the story to me more than once, and there was never a mention of remembering a kit-bag (or a rifle for that matter) or having seen him in a photo.

The family was too poor to own a camera, let alone to have a studio photo taken; I have no photos of my g'dad from that time period.

The reason that I believe my father's account, is that it was the last time that he would see his father for a very long time.

Regards,

JMB

It’s an interesting anecdote, but in this case I don’t personally think that it can be accurate.  The skins were a trench item and men were inspected before going on leave to ensure that they were presentable.  The WW1 period has a wealth of excellent photos that, in addition to family portraits, have been retained by the IWM, Australian Memorial and the Canadian and New Zealand equivalents too.  All the images of animal skin jerkins are clearly in France and Flanders.  Travel home was by public transport and it’s very unlikely that smelly (they weren’t called “stinkers” for nothing) and apparently often lice ridden animal skins would have been permitted or tolerated.  Memories (especially those of a 5-year old) can play tricks, but we cannot ourselves know for 100% sure because we weren’t there and I accept that.  

Edited 1 May , 2022 by FROGSMILE

[JMB1943]

Frogsmile,

I can understand your reasoning, and if someone else had posted my story I might well have had your reaction.

Emotional events (anger/fear/sorrow/longing etc ) can have a very strong impact on the memory, and can be retained well after the mundane (what did I have for lunch on last Monday?).

I think in this instance, neither of us can be definitively right, so let's agree to disagree.

Regarding lice-ridden skins........

3 hours ago, AndrewSid said:

On the flip side a relative whose record survives shows no leave to the uk despite two years in France with the infantry but a family story of his mother burning his uniform as it was lice ridden before reporting it to the local police is present so it’s thought he made it home at least once. 

I would guess that between 50% and 100% of every front-line soldier wore a lice-ridden uniform to home on leave.

Regards,

JMB

[JMB1943]

Frogsmile,

I have absolutely no experience of the Armed Forces, not even the CCF at school.

So what you are telling me is all new, and I accept that you obviously know that of which you speak.

We all seek historical accuracy, but I can no more un-remember my memories of my father than I can change the colour of my eyes. 

Can you tell me unequivocally that NO soldier ever went home on leave wearing the goatskin jerkin? You cannot, of course and neither can I prove my Dad’s story. 

I have an interest in the SMLE No. 1 Mk. III rifle, and frequent military rifle forums. You would think that everything about the British soldier’s primary killing tool would be regulated and prescribed to the nth degree. However, a common refrain on these rifle forums is that with an Enfield you can never say never.

This is not meant to distract from the issue in play, just to illustrate that there are very few, if any, absolutes in some areas.

Regards,

JMB

 

[JohnWH]

Thank you all again for your input. Organising for each soldier to return home to England each year does seem like a mammoth task and I too did wonder if it often didn't happen that way especially given travel times and distance involved for many to actually get to their home. The gist of it is, it appears from your comments, is that what should happen was not always what did happen - some did get home on leave but not all...

[FROGSMILE]

6 hours ago, JohnWH said:

Thank you all again for your input. Organising for each soldier to return home to England each year does seem like a mammoth task and I too did wonder if it often didn't happen that way especially given travel times and distance involved for many to actually get to their home. The gist of it is, it appears from your comments, is that what should happen was not always what did happen - some did get home on leave but not all...

I think pretty much all got leave, but just not always the full annual allocation agreed in autumn 1916.  In the churn of managing these things there are always some more fortunate than others.

Edited 2 May , 2022 by FROGSMILE

[Madmeg]

I remember a quote from a soldier, whether this was written or a recorded interview I CAN'T remember but I think he was in a Scottish regiment, bitterly recalling that he spent four years abroad (and I think was then sent to Russia after WW1) never got home leave in all that time and by the time he finally got home his wife was dead from the flu. 

Although I can't remember the context the story stuck with me

[FROGSMILE]

9 minutes ago, Madmeg said:

I remember a quote from a soldier, whether this was written or a recorded interview I CAN'T remember but I think he was in a Scottish regiment, bitterly recalling that he spent four years abroad (and I think was then sent to Russia after WW1) never got home leave in all that time and by the time he finally got home his wife was dead from the flu. 

Although I can't remember the context the story stuck with me

Yes I remember reading some similar accounts Meg, there must certainly have been a few men who never received leave over very long periods. 

[Madmeg]

cant for the life of me remember where it came from- it was quite a few years ago that I came across it- but it obviously made quite an impression