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3rd RWSR but not West Surreys


BOBLEV

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A soldier by the identification: 6256 Berridge, it appears to be, is that right?

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New user, I'm afraid and posted the above pictures without explanation! Apologies. I would hate to think this is an elaborate fake but research so far indicates that there are no references to this particular soldier (or number) in medal records, Find My Past. CWGC, etc. Aizecourt was the centre of much action action in the Somme and involving many battalions. Could the elusive Pte Berridge relate to a regiment outside the British Army? Any clues or information about this piece, including the shell case itself, will be gratefully appreciated. I'm a private collector. 'Soldier of the Sixties', 1962-1986. Many thanks, Bob

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3 hours ago, BOBLEV said:

New user, I'm afraid and posted the above pictures without explanation! Apologies. I would hate to think this is an elaborate fake but research so far indicates that there are no references to this particular soldier (or number) in medal records, Find My Past. CWGC, etc. Aizecourt was the centre of much action action in the Somme and involving many battalions. Could the elusive Pte Berridge relate to a regiment outside the British Army? Any clues or information about this piece, including the shell case itself, will be gratefully appreciated. I'm a private collector. 'Soldier of the Sixties', 1962-1986. Many thanks, Bob

I’m puzzled by the “RWSR”.  The regiment was very proud of its designation as the Queen’s and the regular and militia/special reserve battalions certainly used that title as a preference.

Edited by FROGSMILE
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I feel it's just too anonymous to be a fake.  My (occasionally bitter) experience warns me that the pukkah fake will invariably display a grain of obvious reality to tempt the unwary buyer.  I can't see that here but I offer:

In the Childers reforms of 1881 the county regiment of West Surrey was named The Queen's (Royal West Surrey) Regiment so I'm led to think that RWSR is this soldier's affiliation despite the acknowledged dodgy nomenclature.  Interestingly the the "3rd" Battalion was a HS Reserve Battalion. However, the 4th Queen's was unusual in sending its 3rd-Line battalion overseas. The 3/4th Bn was sent to the Western Front as reinforcements in August 1917, where it joined 21 Div and fought at Broodseinde and Cambrai. Could this be an "Aizecourt" /overseas link be hidden somewhere here?

Edited by TullochArd
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On 01/05/2022 at 16:09, TullochArd said:

I feel it's just too anonymous to be a fake.  My (occasionally bitter) experience warns me that the pukkah fake will invariably display a grain of obvious reality to tempt the unwary buyer.  I can't see that here but I offer:

In the Childers reforms of 1881 the county regiment of West Surrey was named The Queen's (Royal West Surrey) Regiment so I'm led to think that RWSR is this soldier's affiliation despite the acknowledged dodgy nomenclature.  Interestingly the the "3rd" Battalion was a HS Reserve Battalion. However, the 4th Queen's was unusual in sending its 3rd-Line battalion overseas. The 3/4th Bn was sent to the Western Front as reinforcements in August 1917, where it joined 21 Div and fought at Broodseinde and Cambrai. Could this be an "Aizecourt" /overseas link be hidden somewhere here?

That's good to know. It has the feel of something made lovingly. I wonder if the 4 leaf shamrock at the top points to anything other than a universal symbol of good luck? Could the W be an M? What specifically happened at Aizecourt deserving this commemoration? It doesn't seem that he died there.. Thank you for your interest.  Bob

 

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3 hours ago, BOBLEV said:

That's good to know. It has the feel of something made lovingly. I wonder if the 4 leaf shamrock at the top points to anything other than a universal symbol of good luck? Could the W be an M? What specifically happened at Aizecourt deserving this commemoration? It doesn't seem that he died there.. Thank you for your interest.  Bob

 

I think it’s more likely to be associated with a Territorial or War-raised (Service-Battalion) unit where the ‘West Surrey’ association would be stronger.  A regular would always consider himself a Queen’s-man, as unlike the auxiliaries it had been their unbroken history since 1661.  The very old regiments were often like that and you will see no mention of West Surrey on the insignia, which was really injected via the merger with the Militia and in the ancient regiments either barely acknowledged at all, or removed from insignia once a reasonable period had passed.  

3F126436-F49D-454D-819D-341B0BC7D711.jpeg

Edited by FROGSMILE
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On 29/04/2022 at 15:24, FROGSMILE said:

A soldier by the identification: 6256 Berridge, it appears to be, is that right?

I make it 6258, Frog. See the horizontal line of dots across the middle of the last number?

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7 minutes ago, PhilB said:

I make it 6258, Frog. See the horizontal line of dots across the middle of the last number?

After looking again and being perfectly happy to have misread it, I don’t think so Phil.  The top of an 8 rendered using that typically military style of numbering usually had even sides to the curves at the top of the 8.  Comparing the end digit with the first seems a more similar shape with just the lower line of dots either less apparent or missing altogether.  Worth checking the name under both numbers though.

Edited by FROGSMILE
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51 minutes ago, PhilB said:

I`m having second thoughts myself now!

I think that extra dots once there have been polished off over time.

Edited by FROGSMILE
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I too read 6256 and 3rd RWSR, with the name Berridge it's another conundrum. 

I believe the brass case to be that of a German 7.7 cm Feldkanone. It was produced by Artillerie Werkstatt Dresden as denoted by the AWDr cypher with a date of November 1916, they may also have inserted the primer as it also appears to have a similar cypher inspection mark. St (stark) denotes the case was strengthened (the case walls were of a thicker gauge).

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Thanks, it has helpfully identified the cartridge. I can't see inside the case because it is packed with cement, probably from the days it was used as a doorstop! There was a brass handled souvenir corkscrew embedded in the cement, used, I would think, as a handle. Probably sixties vintage.  Bob

Corkscrew Berridge.jpg

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