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Untangling Charles Wildy ASC/Sherwood Foresters


Madmeg
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Hi all,

Your help  required.

I have Charles Frederick Wildy b c 1876 SEP qtr in Chelsea

And Charles Alfred Wildy b c1875 DEC qtr in Chelsea.

One of these is the son of William and Marion Wildy (ne Webber) and would be a distant cousin through his mother.

The other is the son Alfred and Sarah- not related.

Both Charles can be found in several census- always enummerated as plain Charles. In 1911:- 

Charles b 1877 a coal porter is with parents Alfred and Sarah in Lambeth.

Charles b 1875 a plasterer is with his brother Edward a plasterer and family in Battersea- this man is the son of William (also a plasterer) and Marian

Familysearch shows Charles b 1876 Chelsea as 8th Bn Sherwood Foresters 72182 in 1915

Family search shows Charles b 1876 Chelsea as Army Service Corps s/6335 in 1915.

Charles Frederick married Anna Rebecca Stock in Shoreditch 1911 . There appear to be no children, Anna died in 1928.

Charles Frederick b 1877 died in 1942 in Lambeth.

Are the military records for both men - or one who transferred regiments? And if this is two men are there any clues as to which was which?

What happened to Charles Alfred? 

Obviously I would like to work out which of these two men was my relative :-). It looks like Charles Alfred is the man I want. There is some discrepancy around those close birth dates making life difficult.

Hive mind help as always gratefully appreciated!

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18 minutes ago, Madmeg said:

Familysearch shows Charles b 1876 Chelsea as 8th Bn Sherwood Foresters 72182 in 1915

Family search shows Charles b 1876 Chelsea as Army Service Corps s/6335 in 1915.

MIC shows Charles WILDS WILDY, SS/6335 ASC and also  72182, Notts & Derby - (1) [France], 19.2.15

[WILDS is struck through on the MIC and medals had been returned for amendment and reissued]

M

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For my own clarity-you don't know which one is yours, but either could be? 

Any clues to help us, help you disentangle them?

George

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Charles Alfred's mother's maiden name was Webber, Charles Frederick's was Feltham:

Name: Mother's Maiden Surname: 
WILDY, CHARLES  ALFRED   WEBBER  
GRO Reference: 1875  D Quarter in CHELSEA  Volume 01A  Page 289
WILDY, CHARLES  FREDERICK   FELTHAM  
GRO Reference: 1876  S Quarter in CHELSEA  Volume 01A  Page 336
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1 hour ago, Matlock1418 said:

MIC shows Charles WILDS WILDY, SS/6335 ASC and also  72182, Notts & Derby - (1) [France], 19.2.15

[WILDS is struck through on the MIC and medals had been returned for amendment and reissued]

M

and the Roll shows he was posted to the 17th;15th and 1/8th Battalions of the Sherwood Foresters

The prefix 'SS' denotes 'Supply Special'. The service record of SS/6333 Chas Ernest Aldous has survived and he enlisted in London (Home Address Lambeth) on 1st February 1915 and entered theatre on the same date as Wildy. He was employed initially in the docks at Havre, with No. 5 Labour Company, before moving to Marseilles a few months later. That suggests of the two named above the one you want is the coal porter.

Aldous record may be indexed under his Labour Corps number 307549.

Just found Wildy's record indexed under the Sherwood number which confirms he enlisted the same day as Aldous. Born Chelsea occupation given as 'labourer' he was posted to No 7 Labour Coy at Havre.  He appears to have remained there until posted to Boulogne March 1917 where he served with 24 Labour Company until compulsorily 'for the good of the service' posted to the 17th Sherwoods on 29.9.1917.  The Battalion was disbanded in the February reorganisation of the BEF and it appears he was posted to the 15th.  By April he was on the Depot strength in the UK having suffered a "flesh wound to the buttocks". He was posted back to the BEF and the 1/8th Battalion on the 5th July 1918.  Killed in action on the 17th October 1918 and interred at Fresnoy-Le-Grand Communal Cemetery 

https://www.cwgc.org/find-records/find-war-dead/casualty-details/588316/c-wildy/

No indication he was married  medals and other admin associated with his death dealt with by his brother, Edwin, as named on CWGC site who is shown as next of kin in a pencil note on a document in his record.

 

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8 hours ago, Dai Bach y Sowldiwr said:

Charles Alfred's mother's maiden name was Webber, Charles Frederick's was Feltham:

Name: Mother's Maiden Surname: 
  WILDY, CHARLES  ALFRED   WEBBER  
GRO Reference: 1875  D Quarter in CHELSEA  Volume 01A  Page 289
  WILDY, CHARLES  FREDERICK   FELTHAM  
GRO Reference: 1876  S Quarter in CHELSEA  Volume 01A  Page 336

Thank you  that is the family- it was late last night and I forgot about checking the GRO- DOH!

So he was in the ASC and then posted to the Sherwoods? is that correct? The familysearch listing I can only see the index and it just gives 1915 for both entries- which could indicated two men or a record for one man showing his previous and new records.

He was the plasterer not coal porter and Edwin not Edward as I put above would have been his brother. 

So thank you I can put a line through him after WW1. Charles Frederick the coal porter who survived is from the other family . Charles Alfred died 1918. He was quite old for active service surely!

Poor chap he so nearly survived it- another few days.

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9 hours ago, Matlock1418 said:
10 hours ago, Madmeg said:

Familysearch shows Charles b 1876 Chelsea as 8th Bn Sherwood Foresters 72182 in 1915

Family search shows Charles b 1876 Chelsea as Army Service Corps s/6335 in 1915.

MIC shows Charles WILDS WILDY, SS/6335 ASC and also  72182, Notts & Derby - (1) [France], 19.2.15

[WILDS is struck through on the MIC and medals had been returned for amendment and reissued]

Think this potentially is what you are seeing - FamilySearch style

Here's the MIC

image.png.af0af91ac0e230ea4c377169dec074c2.png

Image courtesy of WFA/Fold3
M

Edited by Matlock1418
typo
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8 hours ago, Dai Bach y Sowldiwr said:

Charles Alfred's mother's maiden name was Webber, Charles Frederick's was Feltham:

Name: Mother's Maiden Surname: 
  WILDY, CHARLES  ALFRED   WEBBER  
GRO Reference: 1875  D Quarter in CHELSEA  Volume 01A  Page 289
  WILDY, CHARLES  FREDERICK   FELTHAM  
GRO Reference: 1876  S Quarter in CHELSEA  Volume 01A  Page 336

argh! for some reason it wants to repeat my quote again- can't get rid of it- hey ho

Yes Matlock could well be- its just an index entry on familysearch- original is only viewable at a family history centre and they just say it has come from Kew- so it could well be the freely available MICs- I'll try that in the future for those familysearch military listings. Doesn;t mention ancestry interestingly just Kew . These are pretty much the only military records for the UK that familsearch lists. 

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8 minutes ago, Madmeg said:

they just say it has come from Kew- so it could well be the freely available MICs

The National Archives at Kew offer a free, but pretty poor, B/W offering for MIC [front only - but often better than nothing - though their scans sometimes record numbers poorly as the microfilming/scanning was sometimes iffy e.g 12345(incomplete) for 123456]. Ancestry and Western Front Association/Fold3 offer in colour and you can usually see the numbers in full, and you can also see the reverse [sometimes handy for an address, especially for officers who had to apply for their medals] = you get what you pay for these days!! All are subject to their own, sometimes unique, transcriptions! Hey ho!!

Good luck wth your research.

M

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Thanks Matlock, I'm trying to tidy up my family tree- Charles' mother was my gt gt gm sister but I have remarkably few DNA connections to the Wildy family that I can find (only one who does not link to my gt gt gf as well). As the Wildys might help me get back further into the incredibly elusive Webbers I'm starting to chase up this family and Charles was a bit confusing in the (free!) familysearch index- it doesn't state they are medal cards there so I was assuming it was another resource- probably not then - handy to know for the future.

Charles died without children so that is an end to that possible link.

Yes I have done those b/w cards (try the PCC wills if you want a REAL challenge :-D- but the ancestry MICs are viewable aren't they? I haven't tried to look at home for a while so I might be wrong about them being available to non subscribers- I am onto Ancestry's "free" views which turn out not to be free at all }:-( .

I do find the MICs very hard to work out TBH even when they are visible as I haven't got my head around the army system- that's why coming on here is so invaluable as there are plenty her who DO know how to make sense of those records- too many TLA's and code numbers (and that's without the multiple men with same names, mistranscriptions, spelling mistakes, men lying about their name and age etc etc) At least Wildy is a rare name- even if they did spell it wrong on the card.

Right back to the rest of the Wildys- Edwin was the only other son in the family and I'm guessing he would be too old to sign up, might start checking out the daughters' lines (Mattocks ,Attfield and Poole - I have Poole already that is the DNA connection)

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