adrian 1008 Posted 19 April , 2022 Share Posted 19 April , 2022 I think this is a small project......... The above is not recorded on a local war memorial, and I am making the case for him to be added. Samuel Dearsley was born in Stradishall Suffolk in 1873. to parents William and Ann. On Dec 11th 1894 he joins the colours in Bury St Edmunds and is posted to 1st Btn. He served in india and Egypt, looking on FMP his record shows good conduct but in Nov 1907 he forfits pay for "physical Inefficiency" this is appealed and the pay is reinstated in March 1908. He leaves the Army in 1913 having completed 18 yrs 49 days and is granted a pension, one of the forms states he has no medal entitlement, yet served 18 yrs + with the colours. He re enlists and is given No 22315 but ? due to age is posted to a Garrison Btn ?? Manchester area He died on 23/06/1916 But I dont know why Questions 1 Why no LSGC Medal 2 Would he qualify for BWM & VM 3 What did he die from Your assistance as always appreciated Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin RussT Posted 19 April , 2022 Admin Share Posted 19 April , 2022 35 minutes ago, adrian 1008 said: 3 What did he die from Cause of death is given on his Pension Card .... (can't read it - no doubt other will be able) Regards Russ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin RussT Posted 19 April , 2022 Admin Share Posted 19 April , 2022 38 minutes ago, adrian 1008 said: 2 Would he qualify for BWM & VM He qualified for the 1914/15 Star, BWM & VM - he is on both Medal Rolls Regards Russ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adrian 1008 Posted 19 April , 2022 Author Share Posted 19 April , 2022 Thank you I ve not seen that .... Carcinoma of stomach is cancer of the stomach ?? Comm on active service commenced on active service or comensurate with active service Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin RussT Posted 19 April , 2022 Admin Share Posted 19 April , 2022 19 minutes ago, adrian 1008 said: comensurate with active service .... I think it means that (although I usually see attrib. i.e. attributable when that is the case) By the way his Soldiers' Effects Record states he died in No 2 Western General Hospital, Manchester. Russ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adrian 1008 Posted 19 April , 2022 Author Share Posted 19 April , 2022 another learning point,thank you I thought a Garrison Battalion meant staying at home made up of older experienced soldiers involved in training Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaureenE Posted 19 April , 2022 Share Posted 19 April , 2022 Garrison Battalions were made up of soldiers unfit for front line duty. This decision was made at time of enlistment or after previous front line service where the soldier had suffered wounds or sickness. They were sent to various parts of the empire on garrison duties to release fit soldiers for front line duty From http://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/regiments-and-corps/the-british-infantry-regiments-of-1914-1918/essex-regiment/ Essex Regiment 1st Garrison BattalionFormed at Denham, Buckinghamshire on 21 July 1915.Left Devonport, arriving Mudros 3 September 1915. Served on Gallipoli before moving to Egypt in February 1916, where it then remained. Maureen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adrian 1008 Posted 20 April , 2022 Author Share Posted 20 April , 2022 Thank you Maureen, I assume he served abroad until he became symptomatic when he was shipped home presumably arriving in Manchester where he was admitted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adrian 1008 Posted 23 April , 2022 Author Share Posted 23 April , 2022 Thank you all, yesterday I met with a member of the Church where the memorial cross is located, He has agreed that the name of Pte Samuel Dearsley will be added to the names of the fallen from WW1. It is hoped to have it added on 23rd June the anniversary of his passing. A soldier who having served for 18 yrs went back to help his country Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matlock1418 Posted 23 April , 2022 Share Posted 23 April , 2022 On 19/04/2022 at 16:33, adrian 1008 said: ?? Comm on active service commenced on active service or comensurate with active service From PIC above - transcribes as: Commg on A/S = Commencing on Active Service. For me, Comm. always means commencing [I have never heard of it as commensurate] Pension was paid after a fairly standard six months of continuation of standard Separation Allowances, during which the pension will have been calculated. The DoB recorded is the widow's - as her pension could, then or later, be age-related/dependant [more if 35-44 and 45 & over] The PIC is annotated N/N which is thought to mean 'Noted for Novel' [i.e. special treatment/calculation] however it only shows 18/6 pw = this was a standard 10/- for a widow under 35yo plus 5/- for first child plus 3/6 for second child. M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adrian 1008 Posted 23 April , 2022 Author Share Posted 23 April , 2022 Thank you Matlock, this a standard pension for his service after 1914, his previous pension for his service 1894/1913 would have died with him or would that be a separate widows pension Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matlock1418 Posted 23 April , 2022 Share Posted 23 April , 2022 (edited) 30 minutes ago, adrian 1008 said: this a standard pension for his service after 1914, his previous pension for his service 1894/1913 would have died with him or would that be a separate widows pension The PIC, above, reflects his Dependant's/s' pension and allowances because of his wartime death - 10/- was the standard widow's rate pertaining to his rank as a Pte., The children's rates were flat rate. I am not familiar with Service pensions - perhaps @ss002d6252 can address matters relating to any service pension that might have accrued. This mention should bring your enquiry to his attention. Of course the N/N [Noted for Novel] could mean that further calculation was undertaken, but unfortunately the main MoP pension file will be long lost as they were deliberately destroyed after their use was ended. M Edited 23 April , 2022 by Matlock1418 expand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss002d6252 Posted 23 April , 2022 Share Posted 23 April , 2022 19 minutes ago, Matlock1418 said: I am not familiar with Service pensions - perhaps @ss002d6252 can address matters relating to any service pension that might have accrued. This mention should bring your enquiry to his attention. Already looking. 43 minutes ago, adrian 1008 said: Thank you Matlock, this a standard pension for his service after 1914, his previous pension for his service 1894/1913 would have died with him or would that be a separate widows pension In the 1917 RW a disabled man received a lower was pension where he was getting a service pension, so they were paid alongside. In respect of widows, the RW 1917 is silent on service pensions. Parts of the 1914 Royal Pay Warrant were retained, but not Article 1245, which covered widow's pensions. I would say, at the moment, that the widow's pension under the RW would have entirely replaced the widow's pension paid on the death of a service pensioner (the MoP rate was higher anyway). Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adrian 1008 Posted 15 June , 2022 Author Share Posted 15 June , 2022 (edited) Update: Earlier this week I submitted my biographical report on Samuel Dearsley to the Parish Council, and following discussion they have agreed that Pte Samuel Dearsley has been missed from a War Memorial and his name should be added, now the debate is where he was born or where he lived ! Both villages are within the same Benefice so its not a problem. On my report I have given credit to the assistance received from GWF colleagues, that has been noted. I will contact local BBC Radio to see if there are any surviving relatives who may like to attend a small dedication ceremony Once again your assistance is appreciated Edited 15 June , 2022 by adrian 1008 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin RussT Posted 15 June , 2022 Admin Share Posted 15 June , 2022 29 minutes ago, adrian 1008 said: now the debate is where he was born His SDGW record states that he was born in Strandishall, Suffolk Regards Russ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin RussT Posted 15 June , 2022 Admin Share Posted 15 June , 2022 On 19/04/2022 at 15:46, adrian 1008 said: He re enlists and is given No 22315 but ? By the way, you can see from his SDGW record that he originally enlisted into the Suffolk Regiment as 18311. That number is indicative of him enlisting around 3rd February 1915 and being posted to the 3rd (Reserve) Battalion, Suffolk Regiment. His War Gratuity of £5 10s (shown in an earlier post) is consistent with that date of enlistment. His Essex Regiment number of 22315 was allotted to him upon his transfer to the Essex Regiment on 21/07/1915 when the 1st Garrison Battalion was formed. I would suspect he was so transferred because of his age/state of fitness. Regards Russ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adrian 1008 Posted 15 June , 2022 Author Share Posted 15 June , 2022 Thank you for this additional information that’s helpful as we are now debating which memorial within the benefice he should be added too. How do you know the dates ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin RussT Posted 15 June , 2022 Admin Share Posted 15 June , 2022 14 minutes ago, adrian 1008 said: How do you know the dates It is generally the case that blocks of Regimental Service Numbers were allotted in chronological order. So it was a simple matter of looking for surviving service records for men with similar numbers. I looked at records either side of Dearsley's numbers to ensure his fell within a block where this order held. That's how I arrived at the dates for each number. As I noted, a completely independent means of establishing an enlistment date can made for men who died in service by using the War Gratuity - and the two diverse means of establishing his enlistment date matched - meaning you can be effectively 100% certain of that date. Regards Russ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adrian 1008 Posted 15 June , 2022 Author Share Posted 15 June , 2022 Thank you Russ I will amend his biography to show the accurate dates Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss002d6252 Posted 15 June , 2022 Share Posted 15 June , 2022 5 minutes ago, adrian 1008 said: Thank you Russ I will amend his biography to show the accurate dates https://wargratuity.uk/war-gratuity-calculator/ Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin RussT Posted 15 June , 2022 Admin Share Posted 15 June , 2022 Just to be clear - I think what Craig has posted is that he enlisted within a month from 24th January 1915. Given that 3rd February 1915 is within a month from 24th January 1915, then I think we are in agreement. If not hopefully Craig will clarify Regards Russ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss002d6252 Posted 15 June , 2022 Share Posted 15 June , 2022 17 minutes ago, RussT said: Given that 3rd February 1915 is within a month from 24th January 1915, then I think we are in agreement. Regards Russ We are. Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adrian 1008 Posted 15 June , 2022 Author Share Posted 15 June , 2022 Thank you both, so he re enlists into the Suffolks in Feb 1915, 18311 is transferred to 1st Garrison Btn Essex Rgt 22315 on its formation 21st July 1915 and sets sail from Devonport / arrives in Theatre (Gallipoli) 06/09/1915 (MIC) I cant understand why his only medal entitlement is the 3 WW1 medals, yet he served in India, Egypt and Malta ... perhaps for another forum ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss002d6252 Posted 15 June , 2022 Share Posted 15 June , 2022 3 minutes ago, adrian 1008 said: I cant understand why his only medal entitlement is the 3 WW1 medals, yet he served in India, Egypt and Malta ... perhaps for another forum ! The 3 medals would be the standard set in the majority of cases, based on when he went overseas. Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matlock1418 Posted 15 June , 2022 Share Posted 15 June , 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, adrian 1008 said: I cant understand why his only medal entitlement is the 3 WW1 medals, yet he served in India, Egypt and Malta ... perhaps for another forum ! There were only four campaign medals for the war, irrespective of where served. A man could only get a maximum of three from: 1914 Star or 1914-15 Star [if eligible for one] plus a British War Medal and a Victory Medal Service for a campaign medal(s) usually had to be in a Theatre of War* - based on first ToW and not for every ToW or place served. Which from his MIC: Pte. S. DEARSLEY, 22315, 1/Garr Essex R was 2B Balkans [typically Gallipoli] = 1914-15 Star, British War Medal and a Victory Medal. * Admittedly some who only did wartime Garrison duties qualified for a BWM alone e.g. overseas in India and some a BWM for commendable service in the UK only - but those are different matters. If you are expanding his service prior to the GW and wider then not just based on places served/length of service - he had to serve in a designated campaign for a campaign medal(s) and medals such as LSGC were dependant on his service conduct. Not my field. Jubilee medal(s) might perhaps have been another possible entitlement I suppose but again I'm not that au fait. May perhaps have required a specific length of service etc.? Possibly also requiring good conduct?? [For example in order to receive the ER2 Platinum Jubilee Medal in 2022 (QPJM) then a minimum of five years qualifying service was required and adverse disciplinary action could prevent entitlement]. Expanding - Probably for another forum as you have suggested, perhaps the British Medals Forum https://britishmedalforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=9651 ?? M Edited 15 June , 2022 by Matlock1418 expand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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