dutchbarge Posted 18 April , 2022 Share Posted 18 April , 2022 (edited) Hello, Regarding the four miniature DFC medals pictured below........I'm aware that the design of miniatures often differed from the official full-sized medals and that all the examples below are hung with post-1919 ribbons........I can't figure out if I'm looking at GRV or GRVI cyphers. If none of these examples are GRV cyphers could someone post a photo of a DFC with a GRV cypher.......any help greatly appreciated. Cheers, Bill Edited 18 April , 2022 by dutchbarge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 18 April , 2022 Share Posted 18 April , 2022 (edited) 9 hours ago, dutchbarge said: Hello, Regarding the four miniature DFC medals pictured below........I'm aware that the design of miniatures often differed from the official full-sized medals and that all the examples below are hung with post-1919 ribbons........I can't figure out if I'm looking at GRV or GRVI cyphers. If none of these examples are GRV cyphers could someone post a photo of a DFC with a GRV cypher.......any help greatly appreciated. Cheers, Bill Hello Bill, I can see why you’re confused when the medal is of relatively poor quality. Much depended on who made them. For both world wars (Kings’ George V and VI) the reverse of the medal is neither of the options you mention, but instead bears the cypher GRI which refers to George Rex Imperator - George, King & Emperor - [of India] and beneath it the year it was established - 1918. The date of the medal’s actual award was inscribed on the bottom arm of the cross if full size. NB. after 1953 the cypher changed to EIIR (who was not Empress due to Indian independence in 1947, before her ascension). The style (font) of lettering changed, which is a common convention for Royal cyphers across Europe, in order to mark each new reign. Edited 18 April , 2022 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dutchbarge Posted 18 April , 2022 Author Share Posted 18 April , 2022 Once again, thank you for your learned reply and photos.......I know that the ribbons are of post-1919 design, but am I otherwise correct in assuming that the design (as opposed to the actual date of manufacture) of all the planchets I posted would be appropriate for 1918-1920? Cheers, Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 18 April , 2022 Share Posted 18 April , 2022 (edited) 6 hours ago, dutchbarge said: Once again, thank you for your learned reply and photos.......I know that the ribbons are of post-1919 design, but am I otherwise correct in assuming that the design (as opposed to the actual date of manufacture) of all the planchets I posted would be appropriate for 1918-1920? Cheers, Bill The ‘obverse’ (front design) was inviolate and all the images you posted are correct, albeit seemingly with varying degrees of quality Bill (there were many makers and as always the price point made a difference - you got what you paid for). The full size medal design ‘reverse’ (rear design) was consistent, but for ‘Miniatures’ it’s clear that different makers utilised a variety of designs on that side that was not generally seen. Some have the correct GRI, some seem to have a standardised GviR (perhaps used on other medals too), some have the word ‘COPY’ within a raised circlet, and some are completely flat with no design at all. It’s important to note that whereas full size medals have an inviolate design for obverse and reverse (i.e. that cannot be altered), there is no such regulation for miniatures, which are purchased rather than awarded, and so entirely commercial. Presumably simplifying the back alters the price point. I hope that makes sense and helps with your inquiry. Edited 18 April , 2022 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dutchbarge Posted 18 April , 2022 Author Share Posted 18 April , 2022 Thank you, once again, for clarifying.......Cheers, Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottmarchand Posted 18 April , 2022 Share Posted 18 April , 2022 Minatures are not offical issued medals, purely the discretionary purchase of the recipient. They are often poorly made and are honestly - very small so the amount of effort to engrave detailed dies was prohibaitive given the relative low potential sales price of these and they small numbers ever actually purchased or worn.. Hence the what you've seen explained above. Note however that the 1918 WW I era DFC's, AFC's etc had no date or other inforamtino engraved on them as awarded. The practive of official engraving of dates came into use in 1938 IIRC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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