1916 RMC graduation named

[PRC]

I’ve tried to add numbers to the picture to make it easier to link to the names. However in doing so I found two of the names from the original caption that I had thought were in the bottom row must in fact be in the second from bottom row. They are R.P. Whittington-Ince and G.W.B. Jacob. As a result I’m less certain about the order of names on the right hand end of that row – my numbers 51 to 54.

All image rights remain with @arantxa

So expanding the caption under the photograph and starting from the top left:-

Top Row

1)     Richard Burnier, Gloucester Regiment \ Royal Sussex Regiment, died of wounds 21/02/1918.

2)     Francis John Whaley, Hampshire Regiment. MC. Wounded 1918 and invalided out.

3)     Charles Elphinstone Fordyce, Seaforth Highlanders.

4)     Henry William Melles Schofield, Unattached List for Indian Army.

5)     Brien MacIntosh Balbi, Connaught Rangers and Machine Gun Corps.

6)     Charles Lacey Priestley, “C” Company, 1st Battalion, Gloucestershire Regiment, died of wounds 11th November 1917.

7)     Hubert Elvin Rance, Worcestershire Regiment.

8)     John Steventon Ballantine \ Ballentine, Unattached List for Indian Army.

9)     Charles James Bruce Ritchie, 9th Battalion The Black Watch (Royal Highlanders), subsequently Reserve of Officers.

10) Robert Henry Armstrong, Hampshire Regiment subsequently Indian Army.

11) Terence John Collison Weir, Norfolk Regiment.

12) James Coster Lloyd Edwards, Royal Welsh Fusiliers

Second from Top Row

13) William Paget L’Estrange Clayton, West Yorkshire Regiment.

14) John Stratford Collins, 12th Battalion, (actually 7th Battalion), Royal Sussex Regiment, killed in action 5th April 1918.

15) Cecil Martin Sankey, East Kent Regiment.Killed aero accident 15th March 1918.(Belated thank-you to @Tawhiri for finding the accident cards).

16) Percival Ralph Paul, 2nd Battalion Royal Warwickshire Regiment.

17) Harold Welford Sheffield, 1st Battalion East Yorkshire Regiment, killed in action 23rd March 1918.

18) Francis Barre Beresford Dowling, East Surrey Regiment.

19) Edgar John Acworth Burn-Bailey, Middlesex Regiment.

20) Herbert Hudson Morrell, Yorkshire Regiment, York and Lancaster Regiment, and Royal Army Pay Corps.

21) Christopher Gray Robins, York and Lancaster Regiment.

22) Charles Arthur Allen, 42nd Deoli Regiment, Indian Army.

23) Harold Rodolph Howell, Suffolk Regiment.

24) Christopher Sikes, Leinster Regiment.

Centre Row

25) St Cyprian Churchill Tayler, Royal Sussex Regiment.Won the M.C. Air Ace. Serving with 80 Squadron he was shot down and killed 17th March 1918  - details from @arantxa

26) Edwin Athelstan Hamlyn, Unattached List for Indian Army.

27) Edwin Pease Houghton Mitchell, Border Regiment. KiA 15/12/1941 at Gurun, Malaya while C.O. 2nd Bn.@ - details from @arantxa

28) William Franklin Beavan, East Kent Regiment.

29) William Henry Victor Jones, Middlesex Regiment.

30) Eric Norcliffe Grassett Earle, South Wales Borderers.

31) Gerald Dicey, Royal Scots Fusiliers.

32) Lancelot Claude Prendergast, Unattached List for Indian Army.

33) George Francis Gradwell, Royal Dublin Fusiliers. Died 28/02/1917, aged 18.

34) William Rupert Edolph Andrews Uthwatt, Royal Highlanders.

35) Robert Carl Moesch Jones, 3rd Battalion attached 5th Battalion, South Wales Borderers. Died of Wounds 13th November 1916.

36) Noel Fenwick Vicars Hamilton, 2nd Battalion & 7th Battalion Leinster Regiment.

37) Robert Kildahl Dilworth, 2nd Battalion Royal Munster Fusiliers, killed in action 28th December 1916.

38) Cyril Herbert Flinn, “X” Company, 1st Battalion, Essex Regiment, killed in action 14th April 1917.

39) Pierre (“Peter”) Clifford Campbell-Martin, Sherwood Forsters and 25 Squadron, R.F.C. PoW – escaped. Cashiered 1921. Served RAF WW2. Killed in Action 17th October 1941.

Second from Bottom Row

40) Staff-Sergeant G.Lawrence, The Queens Regiment.

41) Vivian Lewes Parker, Unattached List for Indian Army.

42) Ivor Thomas Percival Hughes, Royal West Surrey Regiment.

43) R. Barnett-Hewitt, Believed to be Frank Barnett Hewtt, Loyal North Lancashire Regiment.

44) Kenneth Conway Marlow(e). Royal Fusiliers. Died 3rd December 1918.

45) Hugh Granville White, The Buffs (East Kent  Regiment), Royal Flying Corps and RAF.

46) Ronald Macdonald Morrison, 1st Battalion East Yorkshire Regiment. Killed in action 9th April 1917.

47) Roger Myles Gidlow-Jackson, Loyal North Lancashire Regiment. Died a Lieutenant Colonel in that Regiment, 9th May 1945.

48) Geoffrey Douglas Lothian Nicholson, 4th Battalion, Worcestershire Regiment, killed in action 23rd to 25th April 1917 – originally reported wounded and missing.

49) Rowden French Fitzherbert, North Staffordshire Regiment, 21st Battalion Manchester Regiment and Indian Army.

50) Amos Lloyd Connor, 2nd Bn. Nottinghamshire & Derbyshire Regiment. Died of Wounds 30th June 1917.

51) Cecil Roche Bullen Playford, London Regiment and Hampshire Regiment.

52) Ralph Piggott Whittington-Ince, 11th Battalion, East Yorksire Regiment, died of wounds 11/11/1918.

53) Thomas Ivor-Moore MC, MGC, Worcestershire Regiment and Tank Corps \ Royal Tank Regiment. Died 18th April 1946 as a serving Brigadier General.

54) George Webb Butler Jacob, Royal Irish Regiment. Dismissed the service  13th October 1921 by order of a General Court Martial.

Bottom Row

55) Donald Meredyth Chambers,1st Battalion, South Staffordshire Regiment.

56) Ivo Clifton Gascoigne, Grenadier Guards

57) George William Ambrose Kingham , died 09/11/1917 serving with the Buffs - source @Phil B. East Kent Regiment attached West African Frontier Force. Drowned in the loss of the S.S. Umgeni, 9th November 1917.

58) John Francis Coster Edwards, 24th Battalion, Royal Welsh Fusiliers, (attached from 3rd Battalion), died of wounds 10th or 11th November 1918.

59) Thomas Froes Ellison, M.C. 1st Battalion Northumberland Fusiliers.

60) Major J.L.G. Burnett, D.S.O., Gordon Highlanders

61) Under-Officer F.A. Hewatt

62) Captain J. Bradstock, South Wales Borderers

63) Arthur Penrose Martyn Sanders, Northumberland Fusiliers, 5 Squadron RFC and RAF.

64) William Eyles Knowlden, Border Regiment and 22 Squadron, Royal Flying Corps – shot down and taken prisoner 3rd November 1916.

65) Edmund Lawrence Farnall, South Wales Borderers.

66) Francis Galpine Rogers, Devonshire Regiment.

67) Sergeant H.W. Cousins, The Queen’s Regiment.

Cheers,
Peter

Edited 23 April , 2022 by PRC
Typos

[arantxa]

That is fantastic

i will get the original framed with that along the bottom .....do you have the same sort of thing for the 19th one you did as im going to get that framed and this way of doing it looks great.. very artistic as well  !!!!

When you have rested and finished chores would you like me to pop up a 1914 or 1919 one same College different group with names 

 

[arantxa]

I think thats a high mortality rate..when i used to walk along the cloisters as my boarding school..the  casualty  list was done in the class of...and it struck me that you either got killed as a 2nd Lieutenant or went on often to a very high rank 

I will put the picture up in the foyer of my business ..a lot of people will see it when they are waiting (partially because there is not a lot else to do ) 

 

Thanks again

[arantxa]

I will..that sounds a good read

 

Thanks

[PRC]

35 minutes ago, arantxa said: I think thats a high mortality rate..when i used to walk along the cloisters as my boarding school..the  casualty  list was done in the class of...and it struck me that you either got killed as a 2nd Lieutenant or went on often to a very high rank anks again While I was trawling around the internet looking for details on these individuals I came across a couple of references that the fatality rate amongst junior officers was in the low 20 per cents - I think one ethesis from someone doing the University of Birmingham Masters course quoted 23.6%. Of course there are all sorts of methodologies for calculating that value, so to be taken with a pinch of salt. But the consensus seems to be it was a considerably higher rate than for a Private. If I've identified the right individuals then 17 dead out of 62 cadets would give you 27% - so above average for a typical group. Taking into account the three known to have died later in their military career that would be 32%. Also of interests is that it looks like 2, (3%) or even possibly 3 (5%), were cashiered. Given the total size of the officer corps over the course of the Great War that would stack up to quite a lot of barrels of bad apples. On 17/04/2022 at 23:14, FROGSMILE said:  It would be a striking image at the end of the research to reprint the photo with a cross through the face of every officer killed whilst in military service. It's a bit amateurish - the software I'm using is nearly 20 years old - but something like this? (Great War fallen only). Cheers, Peter

 

[arantxa]

No the first one is fantastic what I meant …my wife says I don’t explain my self well

the thread you did for the 19th officer cadet that long picture with the signatures 

I read some where that they like boarding school boys becouse they were fit and raised on Kipling  I found at school they were fanatical about sports and runs before breakfast ! 

[PRC]

15 minutes ago, arantxa said:

No the first one is fantastic what I meant …my wife says I don’t explain my self well

The second picture with the crosses on the faces was in response to the original request from frogsmile.

2 hours ago, arantxa said:

do you have the same sort of thing for the 19th one

Lots of candidates for the signatures, but probably no more than a couple max where a facial comparison meant there was any certainty that the candidate identified from the signature was also present in the picture.

At this point trying to identify individuals on the photograph would be fairly pointless without more confirmation of who was on that course and other pictures to make a comparison with. It's a bit like those special memorial in CWGC cemeteries - there are a lot of individuals that are believed to be present in the picture, we just can't say exactly where.

2 hours ago, arantxa said:

When you have rested and finished chores would you like me to pop up a 1914 or 1919 one same College different group with names 

It's nearly the end of April and I've realised that I've not finished and published a single piece of my own research this year. "All" I've done is research for other people and submitting in from the cold cases. I'm probably going to ease off the forum for a couple of weeks, so I'll leave it up to you when you post - after all it doesn't have to be just me who monopolises the responses

Cheers,
Peter

[arantxa]

Peter ..No of course not i dont blame you !! what are you researching at the mo

[PRC]

1 hour ago, arantxa said:

what are you researching at the mo

War and service related related dead in the Norwich municipal cemetery - down to the last 250 plus the mass grave for the civilian war dead of WW2.

War dead of the village of Paston, Norfolk.
Roll of honour for the village of Ranworth, Norfolk
100 years of Yarmouth Naval Hospital burials in Great Yarmouth and Caister on Sea.
War dead of the village of Upper Sheringham, Norfolk and the crash of the B24 "Alfred", 392nd BG, USAAF in the village.
War dead of the village of Bradwell, Norfolk.
War dead of the village of North Lopham, Norfolk.

The village ones mainly need a visit to the County Archive. After that there are thousands of pictures of headstones and memorials to look into and do some kind of write up, as well as a revisit of the stuff I've put online already to update as new sources have become available. I can see I shall be working from beyond the grave on a lot of this

Cheers,
Peter

 

[arantxa]

Was Norwich badly bombed then to have a mass grave

[FROGSMILE]

4 hours ago, PRC said:

 

While I was trawling around the internet looking for details on these individuals I came across a couple of references that the fatality rate amongst junior officers was in the low 20 per cents - I think one ethesis from someone doing the University of Birmingham Masters course quoted 23.6%. Of course there are all sorts of methodologies for calculating that value, so to be taken with a pinch of salt. But the consensus seems to be it was a considerably higher rate than for a Private. If I've identified the right individuals then 17 dead out of 62 cadets would give you 27% - so above average for a typical group. Taking into account the three known to have died later in their military career that would be 32%. Also of interests is that it looks like 2, (3%) or even possibly 3 (5%), were cashiered. Given the total size of the officer corps over the course of the Great War that would stack up to quite a lot of barrels of bad apples. It's a bit amateurish - the software I'm using is nearly 20 years old - but something like this? (Great War fallen only). Cheers, Peter

 

That works very well as a brutally stark image, and is not as bad as I imagined it might be.  I suspect that some courses suffered much more than others, not least if their arrival with front line battalions coincided with a major offensive on the part of either one of the belligerent groups.

Edited 23 April , 2022 by FROGSMILE

[mrfrank]

34 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said:

That works very well as a brutally stark image, and is not as bad as I imagined it might be.  I suspect that some courses suffered much more than others, not least if their arrival with front line battalions coincided with a major offensive on the part of either one of the belligerent groups.

 

This course certainly had a much higher casualty/fatality rate.

 

 

[arantxa]

I will have a look it’s a slim chance that this one may be in my pile in which case I can give you the names 

[FROGSMILE]

56 minutes ago, mrfrank said:

 

This course certainly had a much higher casualty/fatality rate.

 

 

Yes I recall that as a very memorable thread with a high quality scan of the photo.  Unfortunately it hasn’t had quite the same forensic attention as delivered by @PRC Peter in this more recent thread of arantxa’s.

Edited 23 April , 2022 by FROGSMILE

[mrfrank]

15 minutes ago, arantxa said:

I will have a look it’s a slim chance that this one may be in my pile in which case I can give you the names 

That would be very fortuitous….. I shall keep my fingers crossed!

[Tawhiri]

2 hours ago, arantxa said:

Was Norwich badly bombed then to have a mass grave

I'm sure Peter will give you a definitive answer, and not wanting to veer off topic and have this thread locked, but according to the CWGC website there are 339 WW2 civilian casualties commemorated in Norwich. A quick look at the search results with 100 casualties per page suggests that well over 200 of these occurred at the end of April/start of May 1942, so presumably linked to a major bombing raid around the 27/28 April 1942, with further casualties dying in hospital in the immediate aftermath.   

Wikipedia has this to say, and mentions two raids, one on 27 April, the other on 29 April, with 229 civilian casualties:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norwich_Blitz

Edited 23 April , 2022 by Tawhiri

[mrfrank]

5 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said:

Yes I recall that as a very memorable thread with a high quality scan of the photo.  Unfortunately it hasn’t had quite the same forensic attention as delivered by @PRC Peter in this more recent thread.

I suspect that if he did that for every photo posted on the forum, he’d be employed full time and never get anything else done (and I’d be posting more photographs!). Nevertheless, it’s a very impressive level of information he’s provided here. 

Edited 23 April , 2022 by mrfrank

[PhilB]

The men in the OP don’t have the usual cadets’ hatbands. Had they been dispensed with at that time or is it possible they had already received their commissions (despite still being in OR uniform)?

[FROGSMILE]

39 minutes ago, PhilB said:

The men in the OP don’t have the usual cadets’ hatbands. Had they been dispensed with at that time or is it possible they had already received their commissions (despite still being in OR uniform)?

I’m not sure that they used white hat bands at RMC Sandhurst Phil, it was more a feature of the pro tem OCBs in the university colleges, and those wartime establishments run by the Artist’s Rifles I think.

[PRC]

3 hours ago, arantxa said:

Was Norwich badly bombed then to have a mass grave

Sadly yes although not as many as the Civil Defence Authorities originally planned for. A large field was taken over adjacent to the Municipal Cemetery and an initial three mass graves were dug, each capable of taking 250/300 bodies - the field is now the Cemetery Extension with graves from the late 1940's onwards.

While Norwich had a number of raids in 1940 and 1941 they were mainly targetting aircraft factories, maintenance depots and rail-yards. The last of these was in August 1941 and in the lull air defences were weakened - AA batteries were moved elsewhere, the barrage balloons were thinned out. So the city was pretty defenceless at the end of April 1942 when Norwich, one of the Cathedral cities identified as a target in what became known as the Baedekker raids, (from the pre-war tourist guides), was targetted.

German bombers visited on the night of the 27th/28th and 29th/30th April. They would come again on the 1st May, then on the 27th June 1942. By the time of the last of these the air defences had been beefed up, but some bright spark had the idea that rather than guard the natural approach routes to the city, (a wide river led straight to it from the sea to the south-east), they would put them on the heights above the city to the east and north-east that was the natural route away after the bombs had been dropped - and yes, Norfolk does have hills. As well as a number of friendly fire incidents and collisions with newly placed barrage balloons, a lot of the subsequent deaths in the June raid were caused by premature explosions and unexploded shells falling back onto residential areas in the city below.

Further raids would follow, but on a much smaller scale, the last being in November 1943.

The Norwich air-raid casualty list amounted to 340 killed and 1,092 seriously injured. A total of 681 high explosive bombs were dropped within the city boundary during the war.

"The following statistics tell their own story: - Dwelling-houses - Totally destroyed 358; not repairable 1678; badly damaged, vacated, repairable 1158; badly damaged but habitable 1539; moderate damage 25,621; total 30,354.

"Industrial Establishments, offices and business premises and public buildings - Totally destroyed 80; not repairable 129; badly damaged but repairable 258; moderate damage 508; total 975.

"First-aid repairs were carried out to 29,398 houses, this figure including 3511 houses damaged a second time, and 144 damaged a third time. More substantial repairs were carried out to 24,811 houses. Of the 2697 badly damaged houses the local authority has repaired 2326 and 228 have been or are being repaired privately.

Source for the stats http://www.georgeplunkett.co.uk/Website/raids.htm

The one mass grave used - many of the victims are buried in family plots, sometimes remembered with a bespoke headstone in the style of the IWGC \ CWGC - was eventually kerbed off and surrounded with hedging. It now forms a memorial garden.

Set into the kerb stones are memorial plaques like this one -

City Council provided headstone.

Cheers,
Peter

Edited 23 April , 2022 by PRC
Typo

[arantxa]

That is sad

[PhilB]

It looks like standards weren’t quite the same at Sandhurst during WW1!

 Officer Cadets of the Junior Division marching past the Old College at the Royal Military Academy Sandhurst, November 1917.

[FROGSMILE]

15 hours ago, PhilB said:

It looks like standards weren’t quite the same at Sandhurst during WW1!

 Officer Cadets of the Junior Division marching past the Old College at the Royal Military Academy Sandhurst, November 1917.

I’m very intrigued by this incongruous image and cannot imagine why they are rehearsing in mufti. The photos are reminiscent of those early Kitchener’s Army recruits who had no uniform circa 1915, yet these are apparently officer cadets much later in the war.  The answer must be out there somewhere, but I’m stumped as to what it might be. It’s very odd indeed.

Edited 24 April , 2022 by FROGSMILE

[PhilB]

I thought it odd that the only items they seem to have been issued with are a rifle and bayonet and a belt. Standard dress seems to be flat cap. I expected a few boaters or trilbies.

[FROGSMILE]

12 minutes ago, PhilB said:

I thought it odd that the only items they seem to have been issued with are a rifle and bayonet and a belt. Standard dress seems to be flat cap. I expected a few boaters or trilbies.

I agree, there’s something distinctly odd about it and some of the ‘cadets’ look very mature.  I’m not entirely convinced that that caption is accurate.

However, there is a young cadet in uniform in the front rank, they all appear to have 03 pattern web belts with polished buckles and the rifles are SMLEs with 07 sword bayonets fixed.

Edited 24 April , 2022 by FROGSMILE