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Remembered Today:

Imprisonment after found guilty at a court martial -- where?


FrancesH

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23 minutes ago, Ron Clifton said:

As I read it, he would have lost his rank by being cashiered, and hence would be imprisoned as a civilian.

Ron

Thanks Ron, and yet these people were still referred to by their rank for some odd reason (perhaps then erroneously).  Have you seen anywhere a precise explanation of the meaning and consequences of being Cashiered?  i.e. What in totality it incorporated.

Edited by FROGSMILE
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18 hours ago, Ron Clifton said:

As I read it, he would have lost his rank by being cashiered, and hence would be imprisoned as a civilian.

Ron

Ron as so often I’ve found the answer in an old thread here to which you had contributed.  It’s not one that I’d seen before so I think I must have been away at the time.  Anyway, here it is: 

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Just checking though I think I know the answer -- if an officer was cashiered he literally lost his rank, and therefore should not be appearing in civilian life describing himself as 'Captain' or whatever?? And yes, I have such a case!

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3 hours ago, FrancesH said:

Just checking though I think I know the answer -- if an officer was cashiered he literally lost his rank, and therefore should not be appearing in civilian life describing himself as 'Captain' or whatever?? And yes, I have such a case!

That seems to be the case Frances, yes.  The old thread that I linked in just above has some good information.

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Hi Frogsmile, since then I have TWO other cases where gentlemen in trouble with civil courts appear there as 'captain'! 

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Hello Frances

Officers could only be sentenced to be cashiered by order of a military court-martial, so unless they had already been court-martialled for a military offence, if they appeared in front of a civil court charged with a non-military offence, they would still use their existing rank of captain or whatever.

Ron

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It can be confusing Frances, because any civil offence committed whilst still in the armed services, is automatically also a military offence (for which an officer might be cashiered and as we’ve learned lose his rank).  If however, he commits the offence after leaving the armed services, then he appears in court under his retired rank, and the civil penalty cannot remove that rank (as explained by Ron).  I think that’s what I’d mixed up earlier in the thread.  It explains how the movie characters like that played by David Niven might be an ex-convict, but still using the military rank to which he remained entitled.  It meant that he’d been prosecuted after leaving the Army.

Edited by FROGSMILE
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  • 4 weeks later...

Thank you both! However, the two cases I have found concern officers who were court martialled and therefore lost their rank as a result of being cashiered (am I right so far?) So therefore when they appeared in court for unrelated civil offences, they should not have done so as 'Captain' So and So?

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6 hours ago, FrancesH said:

Thank you both! However, the two cases I have found concern officers who were court martialled and therefore lost their rank as a result of being cashiered (am I right so far?) So therefore when they appeared in court for unrelated civil offences, they should not have done so as 'Captain' So and So?

I believe that would be a correct conclusion based upon what we’ve clarified in this thread, yes.  I suppose it would be correct to say “former captain”, and I imagine that any lawyer worth his salt would point out the military service if he thought it advantageous for his client.

Edited by FROGSMILE
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Ha ha, yes! however, in both these cases it's clear that the men concerned were referred to, and therefore presenting themselves socially, by a military title to which they no longer had a claim. Of course all my subjects went to some trouble to conceal the fact that they had faced a court martial. Some evidently thought they could get away with reverting to their lost rank ...

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Mates,

Of cause one - nil so far in the Rugby, we'll see what happens tonight, the way England are playing it should be one - one and then the decieder.

Can't wait for the kiwis later this year.

Of cause in the other strange game you play, we made the World cup

Stay Safe.

S.B

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