13028 Pte.J Hall KOSB

[Stevend]

This soldier was killed 27th June 1915

With 2nd battalion.

If anyone can tell me where the 2nd was in France also if possible the casualties for the day i would be extremely grateful 

[Gunner 87]

8 minutes ago, Stevend said:

This soldier was killed 27th June 1915

With 2nd battalion.

If anyone can tell me where the 2nd was in France also if possible the casualties for the day i would be extremely grateful 

Hello. I'm sure you have seen this but the diary has one paragraph covering the 16th June to the 20th July. https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C7352244

 

[Stevend]

Thanks

Makes me think he either died and it wasnt reported for the war diary notes.

Or date may be wrong.

[Gunner 87]

34 minutes ago, Stevend said:

Thanks

Makes me think he either died and it wasnt reported for the war diary notes.

Or date may be wrong.

Agreed. I thought it a little odd that no casualty is listed. I've just checked the pension records and Army Registers of Soldiers' Effects and the date certainly seems correct...

[Matlock1418]

47 minutes ago, Stevend said:

Makes me think he either died and it wasnt reported for the war diary notes.

Or date may be wrong.

Date for Soldier's Effects, SDGW, CWGC [27/6], Pensions [27/6] etc. are likely to come from the same source

1 hour ago, Gunner 87 said:

https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C7352244

This seems a particularly spartan diary entry for a period of over a month.

Doesn't look like they reported much so the death of a soldier is probably seen as 'nothing of any interest".

Might be worth looking to see if any/how many other soldiers from 2KOSB were lost in the same period - and if any notes relating to them might perhaps refer/apply to HALL.

M

Edited 9 April , 2022 by Matlock1418

[Gunner 87]

19 minutes ago, Matlock1418 said:

Date for Soldier's Effects, SDGW, CWGC [27/6], Pensions [27/6] etc. are likely to come from the same source

This seems a particularly spartan diary entry for a period of over a month.

Doesn't look like they reported much so the death of a soldier is probably seen as 'nothing of any interest".

Might be worth looking to see if any/how many other soldiers from 2KOSB were lost in the same period - and if any notes relating to them might perhaps refer/apply to HALL.

M

That was a good idea. According to the CWGC two 2/KOSB died that day, but one was a POW in Germany, so John would be the only person listed. No a greatly significant event. The diary mentions artillery so that maybe how John was killed. Only eight 2/KOSB were killed in the period shown in the War Diary 16/06/15 - 20/07/15.

Edited 9 April , 2022 by Gunner 87

[Matlock1418]

18 minutes ago, Gunner 87 said:

According to the CWGC two 2/KOSB died that day, but one was a POW in Germany,

A quick search of CWGC reveals [excluding the PoW chap] in that whole diary period 2KOSB lost HALL and 10 others = "nothing of any interest"

Not sure their next of kin will have felt that way. :-(

Returnng to HALL - are you sure he was KiA [pension card records that] and not DoW anywhere else?

His grave appears lost as he is commemorated on the Menin Gate, Ypres.

M

Edited 9 April , 2022 by Matlock1418

[Chesterboy]

1 hour ago, Stevend said:

This soldier was killed 27th June 1915

With 2nd battalion.

If anyone can tell me where the 2nd was in France also if possible the casualties for the day i would be extremely grateful 

The battalion was in Belgium, not France 

[Gunner 87]

3 minutes ago, Matlock1418 said:

A quick search of CWGC reveals [excluding the PoW chap] in that whole diary period 2KOSB lost HALL and 10 others = "nothing of any interest"

Not sure their next of kin will have felt that way. :-(

Returnng to HALL - are you sure he was KiA [pension card records that] and not DoW anywhere else?

M

The Army Register of Soldiers' Effects, Pension Cards, MIC and MR's all say Killed in Action on the 27/06/15

[Matlock1418]

22 minutes ago, Gunner 87 said:

The Army Register of Soldiers' Effects, Pension Cards, MIC and MR's all say Killed in Action on the 27/06/15

Thanks for looking wider than just the pension card - Well, in the absence of any evidence to trump those, then KiA, 27/06/15, it appears to be.

M

Edited 9 April , 2022 by Matlock1418

[Stevend]

Yes the information i had was he was killed this day. Most probably by artillery fire.

Shame it wasnt even mentioned in diary but maybe it was written before they knew he was killed

Thanks for clearing up they were in Belgium 

 

Steven

[Gunner 87]

11 minutes ago, Stevend said:

Yes the information i had was he was killed this day. Most probably by artillery fire.

Shame it wasnt even mentioned in diary but maybe it was written before they knew he was killed

Thanks for clearing up they were in Belgium 

 

Steven

Just found John's medals online. I cannot find the link so looked up the seller and they were not listed so must have recently been sold. Definitely worth a second search  if they are wanted. The seem to be still listed on PicClick https://images.app.goo.gl/c3adSvHEZpdSf6g2A

@Matlock1418

[Matlock1418]

1 minute ago, Gunner 87 said:

@Matlock1418

Not me looking. ???

M

[Gunner 87]

6 minutes ago, Matlock1418 said:

Not me looking. ???

M

No, just tagged you for your interest  

 

[Matlock1418]

Just now, Gunner 87 said:

No, just tagged you for your interest

Ah, that explains! 

M

[Matlock1418]

38 minutes ago, Stevend said:

Shame it wasnt even mentioned in diary but maybe it was written before they knew he was killed

Unlikely as an OR to mention him personally/by name and they must have been writing at least three weeks after - surely he would be known dead by then.

Surprising, well I would be surprised, if there are no causalty figures for that period - or perhaps elsewhere and not in that abstract.

M

[Gunner 87]

1 hour ago, Matlock1418 said:

Unlikely as an OR to mention him personally/by name and they must have been writing at least three weeks after - surely he would be known dead by then.

Surprising, well I would be surprised, if there are no causalty figures for that period - or perhaps elsewhere and not in that abstract.

M

Hi M. Just following on and before we close I thought to post the previous period where casualties are listed though still a quiet time. I wonder if this is because the latter was written by the C.O.!!

[Matlock1418]

1 minute ago, Gunner 87 said:

Just following on and before we close I thought to post the previous period where casualties are listed though still a quiet time. I wonder if this is because the latter was written by the C.O.!!

Short of time and/or not owning up to casualties ???

So frustrating now, 100+ years on!

M

[kenmorrison]

Manchester Evening News 26 June 1916 p.4

 

HALL.—In loving remembrance our dear son and brother, Private JOHN HALL. 13028, K.O.S.B , who was killed in action in France on June 26th, 1915, in his 25th year.

Nameless his grave on a battlefield gory,

Only a cross o'er mound of brown earth,

Dead in the pride of his youth and his glory,

Far from his home and the land his birth.

With heartfelt regrets from his sorrowing

FATHER and MOTHER, SISTER and BROTHERS.

3, Westmoreland-street, Harpurhey.

 

Ken