FROGSMILE Posted 26 April , 2022 Share Posted 26 April , 2022 2 minutes ago, adrian 1008 said: Update : No 10 Alfred Herbert Naish. KRRC 20th Btn Pioneers Thank you @FROGSMILE for your attn to detail. he wears the collar badges of the 20th Btn In addition he has two medal ribbons. QSA & KSA. A Naish was a Sgt in 2nd Btn (The Buffs ) E Kent Rgt His QSA had clasps for Paardeberg. Dreifontain. Relief of Kimberley Transvaal. Natal. His KSA clasps SA 1901 & 1902 Discharged home as Time Expired Born 1877 KIA 13/06/16 Age 39 came from Beaconsfield You are making really good progress now thanks to the identification of the course from Charles’s research. It’s extraordinary when we consider the standing start of nothing but a photo with no date or names. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adrian 1008 Posted 26 April , 2022 Author Share Posted 26 April , 2022 i m amazed at what We ve learnt. Due in no small part to your expertise I m offering up No 20 Thomas Hughs Jenkin KRRC 20th Pioneer Btn.... more to follow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 26 April , 2022 Share Posted 26 April , 2022 (edited) 14 minutes ago, adrian 1008 said: i m amazed at what We ve learnt. Due in no small part to your expertise I m offering up No 20 Thomas Hughs Jenkin KRRC 20th Pioneer Btn.... more to follow Identifying the regimental badges is the easier part made possible in this case by photos of sufficient quality to be able to cross reference with the collar insignia. It’s the research done by Charles and the various inputs of genealogical areas like the MICs and pension records that clinched things. A good team effort really. Edited 26 April , 2022 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adrian 1008 Posted 26 April , 2022 Author Share Posted 26 April , 2022 The Curator /Researcher at the DLI Museum has asked for the details of the DLI Officers. He will look at their database to support photographic links 6 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said: Identifying the badges is the easier part made possible in this case by photos of sufficient quality to be able to cross reference with the collar insignia. It’s the research done by Charles and the various inputs of genealogical areas like the MICs and pension records that clinched things. A good team effort really. Its a fantastic team effort, Thank you to everybody who is assisting, and even just reading ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adrian 1008 Posted 26 April , 2022 Author Share Posted 26 April , 2022 Number 49 Provisional Identity. Vernon Holden. DSO. MC. Commissioned KRRC Dec 1915 later Major with 10th Btn R .W. Kent, seconded R West Surrey. DOW 02/10/1918 at 17 Field Amb Entered France 04/05/1916 Appears in De Ruvigny's Roll of Honour. and FMP. My rationale is he is the only KRRC not from a Pioneer Btn @FROGSMILE your thoughts please Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 26 April , 2022 Share Posted 26 April , 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, adrian 1008 said: Number 49 Provisional Identity. Vernon Holden. DSO. MC. Commissioned KRRC Dec 1915 later Major with 10th Btn R .W. Kent, seconded R West Surrey. DOW 02/10/1918 at 17 Field Amb Entered France 04/05/1916 Appears in De Ruvigny's Roll of Honour. and FMP. My rationale is he is the only KRRC not from a Pioneer Btn @FROGSMILE your thoughts please I don’t think so Adrian. He looks nothing like No49 facially and was in any case gazetted into the Royal West Kent’s whose insignia he would thus have worn. That latter aspect also matches with the portrait you’ve just posted. Edited 26 April , 2022 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adrian 1008 Posted 26 April , 2022 Author Share Posted 26 April , 2022 Apologies you are quite right Enlisted KRRC Commissioned R West Kent ! Oh blow note to self check your facts! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Fair Posted 29 April , 2022 Share Posted 29 April , 2022 Here's the full list of the Wadham platoon with their exam scores. The column marked 'Photo' with IMG_3XXX contained therein is my image of the man's registration form in the file in the Bodleian. The last column contains the file reference. There are 3 men for whom I do not have a registration form or exam scores. I will be doing some number crunching on the exam scores in due course. I have exam scores for several courses at this School of Instruction. There does appear to be a good correlation between the two sores. Now to start data entry on the registration forms. Wadham platoon 10th Course.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stiletto_33853 Posted 30 April , 2022 Share Posted 30 April , 2022 (edited) Adrian, Harold Cecil Round, 6th attached 9th RB As you say born in Godstone but family home was "Avenue House, Witham, Essex" Next of kin was his father, Francis R. Round, Esq., C.M.G. M.C. LG 14/11/16 good citation, D.S.O. LG 16/8/17 with another good citation for the actions at Triangle Wood on 3/5/17 where the Regimental History states:- That night as much as the battalion as could be found came out of the line and moved back to trenches north of Wancourt. But next night - 4th/5th a message was received from 2nd Lieutenant H. C. Round asking for S.A.A., rifle grenades and water; this officer with twelve men had organised and held a strong point since 5.15 a.m. on the 3rd. He and his party were recalled by the O.C. 5th K.S.L.I., who were then holding the line, but he reused to withdraw until parties had been sent out to bring in the wounded. The next night Rifleman Atkins made his way back from a shell hole where he had been guarding two wounded man, one of whom he brought back. Andy Edited 30 April , 2022 by stiletto_33853 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adrian 1008 Posted 30 April , 2022 Author Share Posted 30 April , 2022 Thank you stiletto. Concensus he is number 24 on the original images. Avenue hse stands in the middle of Witham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bordercollie Posted 30 April , 2022 Share Posted 30 April , 2022 I wonder whether @Charles Fair has a nominal roll of the 10th course by section like that posted earlier for the 9th course. In my experience of course photographs placement in the photograph is usually determined by the way that the course is organised into sections or syndicates. If the photograph of the 10th course was arranged in that way a course list by section would be immensely helpful in identifying individuals. Just a thought ... but I accept not a very helpful one if there isn't such a list for the 10th course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adrian 1008 Posted 30 April , 2022 Author Share Posted 30 April , 2022 56 minutes ago, Bordercollie said: I wonder whether @Charles Fair has a nominal roll of the 10th course by section like that posted earlier for the 9th course. In my experience of course photographs placement in the photograph is usually determined by the way that the course is organised into sections or syndicates. If the photograph of the 10th course was arranged in that way a course list by section would be immensely helpful in identifying individuals. Just a thought ... but I accept not a very helpful one if there isn't such a list for the 10th course. Thats an interesting thought, if we cross referenced against the table I am creating it may provide some assistance. We have identified a number of individuals, mainly by regimental badges and medal ribbons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Fair Posted 30 April , 2022 Share Posted 30 April , 2022 3 hours ago, Bordercollie said: I wonder whether @Charles Fair has a nominal roll of the 10th course by section like that posted earlier for the 9th course. In my experience of course photographs placement in the photograph is usually determined by the way that the course is organised into sections or syndicates. If the photograph of the 10th course was arranged in that way a course list by section would be immensely helpful in identifying individuals. Just a thought ... but I accept not a very helpful one if there isn't such a list for the 10th course. Nice idea, but unfortunately this does not exist for the Wadham platoon for this course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 1 May , 2022 Share Posted 1 May , 2022 (edited) 21 hours ago, adrian 1008 said: Thats an interesting thought, if we cross referenced against the table I am creating it may provide some assistance. We have identified a number of individuals, mainly by regimental badges and medal ribbons Am I going mad, or has your most recent post plus my detailed reply completely disappeared? Edited 1 May , 2022 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adrian 1008 Posted 1 May , 2022 Author Share Posted 1 May , 2022 its gone ! I thought it was me ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 1 May , 2022 Share Posted 1 May , 2022 (edited) 20 minutes ago, adrian 1008 said: its gone ! I thought it was me ! Up to a couple of hours worth of posts I think. There must have been some kind of reset to get rid of some gremlins. If you repost I’ll reply with the little bit I could comment on. Edited 1 May , 2022 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adrian 1008 Posted 1 May , 2022 Author Share Posted 1 May , 2022 Reposted due to Gremlins The chart below lists the names of those attending No 10 Course Starting 08/12/1915 at Wadham College I would like colleagues to check and challenge my thinking and where necessary correct any of my errors. Where I am not sure I have indiccated with "?" or "??" There are also a couple of anomalies. 1 Thomas Sidney Athron from Doncaster is shown as W Yorks 34 Roy Fus. He is admitted to 11 Cas Clearing Station on 23rd August 1916 and remains there (apparently) Until 28th Oct 1916 suffering from Neurasthenia - a catch all diagnosis for ??shell shock. He goes on to become a Lt Col RE and dies in Sri Lanka in 1944 not war related death (FMP) Brian Hugh Morgan Tuite appears to relinquish his Commission in London Gazette Vol 1 of 1916 He then turns up as Pte 6041 serving with 9Coy Queen Victoria Rifles Your ongoing support is much appreciated Wadham chart V2 PDF.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 1 May , 2022 Share Posted 1 May , 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, adrian 1008 said: Reposted due to Gremlins The chart below lists the names of those attending No 10 Course Starting 08/12/1915 at Wadham College I would like colleagues to check and challenge my thinking and where necessary correct any of my errors. Where I am not sure I have indiccated with "?" or "??" There are also a couple of anomalies. 1 Thomas Sidney Athron from Doncaster is shown as W Yorks 34 Roy Fus. He is admitted to 11 Cas Clearing Station on 23rd August 1916 and remains there (apparently) Until 28th Oct 1916 suffering from Neurasthenia - a catch all diagnosis for ??shell shock. He goes on to become a Lt Col RE and dies in Sri Lanka in 1944 not war related death (FMP) Brian Hugh Morgan Tuite appears to relinquish his Commission in London Gazette Vol 1 of 1916 He then turns up as Pte 6041 serving with 9Coy Queen Victoria Rifles Your ongoing support is much appreciated Wadham chart V2 PDF.pdf 143.96 kB · 0 downloads I can’t help with the genealogy that will be necessary to track down individual portraits of the officers to match with the group photo, but I will comment on regimental aspects wherever I think it might help. With regards to Lt Athron it looks as if he started with the West Yorkshire Regiment, but then transferred to the 34th (Labour) Battalion of the Royal Fusiliers (later absorbed by the Labour Corps). I don’t know if this might have been due to a low medical grading, or poor examination results during his training. Perhaps Charles Fair can comment on the latter, but usually older, or lower grade officers went to Labour Battalions. As for Lt Tuite, I may erroneously have identified his regiment as KRRC, as the cap badge and black buttons of the 9th London Regiment - Queen Victoria’s Rifles, would appear almost identical from a distance. However, although the KRRC and QVR insignia was very similar, the latter wore collar badges with service dress when the former did not, so it might be possible to track him down that way providing his lapels are clearly visible. See QVR insignia below. Collar badges were miniature versions of the regimental, Maltese Cross cap badge with T beneath. The headdress badge on a red cord boss, the latter similar to that of the KRRC. Edited 1 May , 2022 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Fair Posted 1 May , 2022 Share Posted 1 May , 2022 I've started plugging away at this platoon's forms. 11 entered so far. I'll post the forms by letter as I get to them. Here are the As. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Fair Posted 1 May , 2022 Share Posted 1 May , 2022 The Bs: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 1 May , 2022 Share Posted 1 May , 2022 (edited) This confirms that Thomas Sydney Athron is number 35. Having just checked thoroughly all four of the KRRC, plus all other officer students in the photo, I can confirm that not one of them is wearing the badges of 9th London Regiment - Queen Victoria’s Rifles. Ergo if Lt Tuite is indeed there then he is wearing some other regiment’s insignia. Edited 3 May , 2022 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Fair Posted 1 May , 2022 Share Posted 1 May , 2022 The Cs: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Fair Posted 1 May , 2022 Share Posted 1 May , 2022 The E and the F Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Fair Posted 1 May , 2022 Share Posted 1 May , 2022 The Hs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Fair Posted 2 May , 2022 Share Posted 2 May , 2022 The Js: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now