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Remembered Today:

Pistol, Signal, No.1 MkIII and MkIII*


Sarchet
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I've acquired a few of these so I thought I'd create a thread for them. I'll post them as I detail clean each one and photograph all of the markings. At some point I will be loading flares for them as well, and while I will not be documenting the process on this forum I'll post a video of them in use when I get to that point.

Starting off is a fairly bog standard MkIII* from Webley & Scott. Dated 1915, it has no muzzle bell nor any sign of having had one. The latch has been repaired with solder, and there are no sold out of service (-><-) markings present. It has the frame mounted safety that prevents the latch from moving if the hammer is cocked. 

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The frame, hammer, and barrel share an assembly number (R9) in addition to full or partial serial numbers. Interestingly, the frame is serialized both under the grip and in the usual location on the exposed front right side.

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The ejector cam, ejector, latch, and trigger guard all have partial serial numbers as well, all matching. The three flat springs are marked with Broad Arrows. No serialized part is non-matching. The latch has not been refinished around the repair, and damage to some of the screw heads suggests the repair was done post-service.

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Thanks! Great to have something like this on the GWF!

Trajan

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Excellent photos!

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On 05/04/2022 at 04:48, trajan said:

Thanks! Great to have something like this on the GWF!

Trajan

 

6 hours ago, AlanD said:

Excellent photos!

Thanks!

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I have a very similar example....see if I can find my pics:post-14525-0-07613900-1460693132_thumb.jpgpost-14525-0-61524700-1460693132_thumb.jpgpost-14525-0-14821800-1460693133_thumb.jpg

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20220404_174124.jpg.dadcd6b08f457208d71efa41fdb05a4c.jpg

Next up is a Cogswell & Harrison MkIII. It has no bell or indication of having had one, and is dated 1916. No frame safety is present. Cogswell & Harrison made about 30k signal pistols, starting their numbering at about 50,000 which puts this example solidly in the middle of their production.

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Both frame and barrel bear Sold Out Of Service opposed arrows. The frame is only serialized on the front right side, and does not bear a company logo unlike the Webley or Greener pistols.

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The latch, ejector cam, hammer, trigger, and trigger guard all bear the last three digits of the serial number. Notably, no springs are marked with broad arrows, but the hammer spring is stamped "A" and the latch spring "L". The trigger spring is unmarked. The ejector is also unmarked.

 

@4thGordonsVery nice! Looks like it escaped being upgraded with the frame safety.

Edited by Sarchet
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One of mine, another Webley, this time a 1916 MkIII. Hardly used, all matching numbers.

W&S Flare Pistol.jpg

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Very nice example, the screws look like they are in much better shape than normal.

I'm curious, @4thGordons and @Joolz, do yours also have assembly numbers? I've only found them on Webleys so far. 

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Given that it's over 100 years old, I seriously doubt mine has seen much use, if any. It's pretty much pristine. The metalwork finish, for instance, barely shows any signs of wear and there are only a couple of dings in the brasswork/woodwork. As for assembly numbers, I haven't had it in bits to check for those. 

Webleys.jpg

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In addition to Webley & Scott other manufactures of these signal pistols are Cogswell & Harrison, W W Greener, Wolseley and Chubb.

In addition to these British makers the Rifle Factory Ishapore also made an unknown quantity of these in the Great War. For more details of these and other signal pistols from around the world, there is a flare gun forum. https://flaregunforum.com/

 

On this forum I am running a survey of British Mk111 and Mk111* signal pistols if anyone would care to contribute.

 

Regards

 

Alan

 

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@JoolzI wouldn't be surprised if it simply sat in a locker or arms room until it was sold in that condition. One of the assembly numbers may be visible on the ejector housing when the action is open - just passing curiosity though as to it's presence or absence.

@AlanDThanks for the tip, I'll head over and check that out. I believe I've contributed the information on my Cogswell and Greener pistols via Gunboards, missed out on a Chubb a little while back unfortunately. Do you want information on the Webleys as well? I have two to hand and a first-year one on the way.

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Interested in the first year example, thank you.

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  • 1 month later...

Friends. I'm trying to repair a  signal pistol, it came to me without a shock spring and an extractor pusher. Could you take photos with the dimensions of these parts ?

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11 minutes ago, museumtom said:

It is illegal to do so.

Depends on where he is. In the US these aren't even firearms.

@garsia If it's legal for you to make those repairs where you're at, I can take those measurements next time I have one apart. Not sure when that will be as I just finished making repairs to the latest one and got it back together. Probably best to email them in case hosting dimensioned prints would be contrary to forum rules or laws wherever the forum servers are. Be warned that these will require hand fitting and should be made slightly oversized to accommodate; flat springs in particular are a bit of an art to master making and you'll likely break a few before getting one that fits and is properly tempered. The proper names are the ejector cam and the mainspring, if that helps.

Edited by Sarchet
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In my country, it is a signaling means . Only adapters for firearms calibers are prohibited. I bought this WEBLEY MK III in such a technical condition, but it is very good. I want to try to put a shock spring from the revolver of the nagant system. Of course, this requires improvement. I need photos with dimensions. Thanks for any help.

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