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Remembered Today:

Found My Great Grandfather on Menin Gate


Nicola25
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My Great Grandfather on Menin Gate Harry H Jermy, his body hasn't been found

 

Was an honour to cycle the Gent-Wevelgem sportive,  doing what I love, in their presence. Especially emotional riding under the Menin Gate

IMG_20220331_114054_771.jpg

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Hi Nicola

First, welcome to the forum.

In case you didn't know, you are pointing at an addenda panel to the Memorial. These panels contain names whose sacrifice was not initially recognised and are waiting for inclusion on the Regimental panels. Thanks to the efforts of a research group called the In From The Cold Project, Harry's sacrifice and service was finally recognised in 2009.

https://www.infromthecold.org/casualties.asp?from=search

Hope this helps

Kind Regards

Derek

Edited by Swinesheadvillage
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Hi Nicola

Harry and his wife Alice, were living with her parents, George and Alice Turner, at 4 Argyll Terrace, Montague Road, Edmonton, as recorded by the 1911 census. Also at the same address was Alice junior's brother, James, a glass blower. Your Great, Great Uncle, aged 17. I cant find any other George/Alice Turner combinations on Montague Road. Harry Holland Jermy lists his address as 154 Montague Road, on his attestation papers.

Recorded by CWGC is the death of a 21 James Frederick Turner, aged 21 on 5th Jan 1915. S/N S/6529. Included in the additional information, CWGC records the 'son of George and Alice Turner of 154 Montague Rd, Edmonton,London'. Soldiers effects statment shows the mother and sole legattee as Alice Bowering??

If this is your relative, I'm afraid its a further 11km ride to Loker Churchyard:-

https://www.cwgc.org/find-records/find-war-dead/casualty-details/2938197/james-frederick-turner/

Hope this is not entirely inaccurate.

Kind Regards

Derek

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From what I can see on his surviving service/pension records he first enlisted in 1914 for a short period then discharged, then re enlisted January 1915. He appears to have only gone back to France 21st July 1918 then killed in action 17th August 1918. He'd previously been wounded (once accidently) in July 1916 and in action in August 1917.

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Harry's CWGC link is this one: https://www.cwgc.org/find-records/find-war-dead/casualty-details/75228431/harry-holland-jermy/. The Medal Roll shows that he first served in the 17th Battalion, then the 13th, then the 4th in which he died. His Service Record has a complete list of his postings and movements. It's available here on  Ancestry.

Acknown

Edited by Acknown
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8 hours ago, Nicola25 said:

My Great Grandfather on Menin Gate Harry H Jermy,

Welcome to GWF.

A relatively newly-released record now found that the Western Front Association/Fold3 is this Pension Index Card for Harry Holland JERMY, F189, 4th Bn. Middlesex Regt. - quite a bit of info you may find interesting if you have not already seen it.

2085745218_JERMY.HHF189.png.1684b0a40ffc969b2cc3e7f5a8b08f01.png

Image courtesy of WFA/Fold3

She got a pension approximately 6 months after her husband's death as in the interim the standard Separation Allowances continued whilst they sorted the pension out [this was quite typical].

The Grant of £10 was a funeral grant - not necessarily specifically for a funeral but for 'funeral type' expenses e.g. flowers, newspaper death notice inserts, mourning dress [though not normally worn much at that stage of the war/post-war] etc.= £5 for widow and £1 each for the children

Interesting that the eldest child was at the North London Industrial School [thus not elligible for a pension allowance as not living with his mother] - this sort of establishment usually was because either she could not cope with him [perhaps having problems with behaviour and/or truancy], or because it was seen as educational/occupational/trade training, or because he was considered socially troublesome or at risk of such delinquency and in need of some corrective and educational/occupational schooling.  Here's an interesting link http://www.childrenshomes.org.uk/Northcotts

The note of N/S indicates the pension calculation was considered non-standard and in need of some extra careful calculation [i.e. typically not the job of a standard pensions clerk]

The note of DEAD 1934 means the claim had ended [their mother got a children's pension allowance each until they were 16] - the fact that it did not continue beyond the youngest child suggests that it's likely she had either remarried or died [?]

M

Edited by Matlock1418
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1 hour ago, Matlock1418 said:

the fact that it did not continue beyond the youngest child suggests that it's likely she had either remarried or died [?]

Maybe...

Although...

Deaths Jun 1952   (>99%)
JERMY  Alice E  67  Battersea  5c 42  btnInfo.gif Scan available - click to view

Deaths Mar 1957   (>99%)
Jermy  Alice E  68  Edmonton  5e 293
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15 hours ago, Dai Bach y Sowldiwr said:

Maybe...

Although...

Deaths Jun 1952   (>99%)
JERMY  Alice E  67  Battersea  5c 42  btnInfo.gif Scan available - click to view

Deaths Mar 1957   (>99%)
Jermy  Alice E  68  Edmonton  5e 293

I will acknowledge a big "maybe" - and PIC are not the whole pension file [Those files will have been destroyed after their use was ended - wouldn't we have preferred they were kept?!]

But the claim was certainly/apparently dead in 1934 [for whatever reason after the named children had grown up beyond 16] - it would be unusual for a widow to voluntarily give up a pension but the MoP also had the option to remove a pension based on perceived/actual 'unworthy' behaviour = ???

M

Edited by Matlock1418
typo
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2 hours ago, Dai Bach y Sowldiwr said:

Maybe...

Although...

Deaths Jun 1952   (>99%)
JERMY  Alice E  67  Battersea  5c 42  btnInfo.gif Scan available - click to view

Deaths Mar 1957   (>99%)
Jermy  Alice E  68  Edmonton  5e 293

There are 21 public family trees on Ancestry for him and some give Alice's death as March 1957, in Edmonton. The trees do not give any indication of her re marrying, but not seeing her under her married name on 1939 register.

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..oh wow..I'm overwhelmed by all your responses, I never thought I'd get this when I posted, so interesting. Some of it we knew already as my Mum has dug around alot but theres some new info too which I've past on to her and my uncle which I'm sure they will delve deeper. We know he was shot in the buttocks, as Forrest Gump would say, *** and he was sent back.. The pension certificate made for interesting reading.. Again, thank you so much everyone, what a brilliant Forum

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I note above that the Soldier's Effects Register apparently indicates [I don't have access so can't see it for myself] that Alice BOWERING was the sole legatee

This means there was a will. Edit: This reference above apparently/might refer to James Frederick TURNER [?] - see also further below

A will is found at the Probate Service under HAROLD HOLLAND JERMY

As a soldier's will it probably won't say much [but might perhaps show something that helps you] - a copy can be obtained from their site https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk

M

Edit: Worth also looking for HHJ's Soldier's Effects Register entry

Edited by Matlock1418
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I've had a look at the 4th Middlesex's War Diary, and there is no indication as to how he was killed. Whilst the battalion lost two officers and 33 men that month, 17 Aug 18 is described as a quiet day with the battalion, which was at Ablainezevelle near Beaucourt-sur-l'Ancre, being relieved and moving to Valley Camp Souastre. Of course an incident may have occurred that day, such as a shelling, but it was not reported. The last reported action was on 15 Aug; a trench raid, but again casualties are not mentioned.

Acknown

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I note above that the Soldier's Effects Register apparently indicates [I don't have access so can't see it for myself] "mother and sole legatee, Alice Bowering"

This "legatee" means there was a will.

A will is found at the Probate Service under JAMES FREDERICK TURNER, 6529 - 7 January 1915

As a soldier's will it probably won't say much [but might perhaps show something more that helps you] - a copy can be obtained from their site https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk

M

Edited by Matlock1418
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Another pension card for you - James Frederick TURNER

1330293088_TURNERJF6529.png.786d25e9edfc23da25599474f80f7b4a.png

Image courtesy of WFA/Fold3

A dependant's claim.

Mother, Mrs A Turner, appears to have got a fairly standard 5/- pw pension due to the loss of her son [upon whom she would have been required to show some dependancy - it might have the case that, quite typically, he had alloted some of his pay to her or she could otherwise show prior dependancy]

Thinking about the Alice BOWERING mentioned above - could it possibly be that she later got re-married [or reverted to a maiden name]??

Same address as Harry Holland JERMY's widow - must have been quite a full household.

M

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