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Remembered Today:

Charles Hay Forbes


Roderick Hutchison
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Trying to find details of where this RN Capt. died and where he might be buried. Died 07/11/1919

Understand that he ended a naval experience - where he was not recommenced to be in the Service - as overseeing the Lifeboat Service

Any help would be appreciated

Roderick Hutchison 

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The death of a Charles Hay Forbes, aged 46, was registered in the Marylebone District of London in the October to December quarter, (Q4), of 1919. Can I assume that is your man?

According to the Government Probate Service there are plenty of Forbes in the 1919 and 1921 Calendar, but none for 1920. As they record them by the year probate \ administration was awarded by the court it would seem most likely it would have appeared in 1920. The absence of Forbes from the 1920 Probate Calendar may therefore just be a quirk or it could be an indexing issue - unfortunately the probate service allows a very limited functionality to scroll back and forward. Finding his probate entry might indicate whether he was visiting or resident in London. Unfortunately Deceased Online and FindaGrave don't appear to have anything for him.

On the 1911 Census of England & Wales the 37 year old Charles Hay Forbes, Lieutenant R.N. retired and Lifeboat Inspector, was recorded as the married head of the household at 30 Castle Terrace, Berwick Upon Tweed. He lives there with wife Emily Fawcus Forbes, aged 31 and born Tientsin, China and their two children. On the 1921 Census of England & Wales Emily, aged 42, born China, was recorded living in Seaford Parish, Eastbourne.

Hope some of that helps,

Peter

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15 minutes ago, PRC said:

The absence of Forbes from the 1920 Probate Calendar may therefore just be a quirk or it could be an indexing issue

Or he left no will. In that case everything would have gone straight to Emily as his spouse and there would be no need for probate.

 

 

Edited by seaJane
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He only held the rank of Acting Captain RN. His V and BWM were issued in the rank of Commander RN.

Oddly, the Medal Roll states that these medals were claimed by him in person (S) but he died some two years before medals could be claimed = error on Roll.

His CBE (Commander (Acting Captain) RN as DNTO Salonika -  LG 23 May 1919) was sent to his widow a year later in 1920 but no address given.

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FamilySearch has the probate place as being St. Andrews, Orkney, Scotland, United Kingdom, with three beneficiaries named: Reginald Michael Norman Forbes, James Balfour-Kinnear, and George Purvis Russell-Balfour-Kinnear.

Edited to add he married Emily Fawcus Carrell at the British Consulate in Chefoo, China on 19 October 1900, but rather confusingly there is a second marriage registration on 19 October 1901 at Yantai, Shandong, China, with a note that the original marriage place was Chefoo, China.

Edited by Tawhiri
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20 minutes ago, helpjpl said:

England & Wales Probate Calendar (ancestry):

Forbes.jpg.d8de269ae8e9314579f026d9a70b8fad.jpg

JP

 

'Charles Hay Forbes of Windmill Lodge St Andrews died 7 November 1919 in London.'

JP

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There also appear to be a couple of mentions in the British Newspaper Archives from March/April 1920.

From the Aberdeen Press and Journal of 30 March 1920:

Quote

.. that Auckland and Lady Geddee will leave England on April 10 take up their residence at the Washington Embassy. Captain Charles Hay Forbes, 0.8. E., R.N., Windmill Lodge, Andrews, National Lifeboat Institution Inspector for Scotland, who died the November ...

From the Berwickshire News and General Advertiser of 6 April 1920:

Quote

... hoped that the Eyemouth Post will by the and earnest efforts of its mem- attain portion for good in the community. Capt. Charles Hay Forbes, 0.8. E., 8.X.. of Windmill Lodge, Andrews, and at one time residing in Castle Terrace Berwick, National L feboat I ...

There's also a mention in the The Scotsman of 29 March 1920 under the heading of Wills and Estates, so possibly all are related to the reading of his will.

Certainly seems to be enough confusion about which St Andrews he actually died at.

Edited to add that apparently there is a death notice in the Aberdeen Daily Journal of 12 November 1919.

Edited by Tawhiri
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I did find an obituary online for one of his sons, who became a priest, that mentions that "suffice it to say that in 1919, when he was a child of six, his father died of the effects of Dardanelles shellshock.".

http://www.plantata.org.uk/obits/griffiths/forbes_j.htm

Also mentioned in the Lifeboat magazine of the RNLI.

https://lifeboatmagazinearchive.rnli.org/volume/24/268/rnlbi-headquarters-staff-in-the-war

Edited by Tawhiri
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1 hour ago, Tawhiri said:

Certainly seems to be enough confusion about which St Andrews he actually died at.

1 hour ago, helpjpl said:

Charles Hay Forbes of Windmill Lodge St Andrews died 7 November 1919 in London.'

According to the actual entry in the Probate Calendar, Charles Hay Forbes lived at Windmill Lodge, St Andrews, but died in London.

JP

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28 minutes ago, Tawhiri said:

in 1919, when he was a child of six, his father died of the effects of Dardanelles shellshock.

Long-distance shell-shock because from August 1914 to January 1918 he was at first on the Staff of the Captain of Portsmouth Dockyard and them served as DNTO Portsdmouth He never served at the Dardanelles. Perhaps they are bigging-up his time as DNTO Salonika (based on HMS ST GEORGE) from January 1918.

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Firstly, thank you for all your contributions: I am still confused as I have it that he is mentioned for his death in the Aberdeen Press and Journal Wednesday Nov. 12 1919, having died I believe on è November. He seems to have an astonishing career as he was almost drummed out of the navy as being totally unsuitable; But he was awarded the Swedish Order of merit in 1908, and retired in 1909. He was awarded the CBE (M) for valuable service as D.N.T.O. Salonika from which he was promoted Captain (Rtd)

The Forbes family are from Monneymusk in Aberdeenshire but I find no trace of burial.

Again to you all: Very many thanks. I really appreciate your help

Is there a parallel Forum for WW11?

Roderick

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3 hours ago, Roderick Hutchison said:

Is there a parallel Forum for WW11?

Yes - http://ww2talk.com/index.php

Regards

sJ

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Scotland's People Wills entry:

Name: Forbes, Charles Hay.

Date will proved: 16/3/1920

Description: C.B.E., Windmill Lodge, St. Andrews., Capt., R.N., d. 07/11/1919 in London, testate.

Will proved at: Cupar Sheriff Court.

Cupar was then the county town of Fife, so the St Andrews in question must be the Scottish city.

It's easy to register and search https://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/ for basic information, which is free. Original record views require you to have bought credits.

Best wishes,

sJ

           
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6 hours ago, horatio2 said:

Perhaps they are bigging-up his time as DNTO Salonika (based on HMS ST GEORGE) from January 1918.

The article in the RNLI Lifeboat magazine is a little more forthcoming. It implies his health broke down in Salonika, which then lead to a grave illness which culminated in his death. The article was published in February 1920, so only a few months after he died.

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Charles Hay Forbes is listed with a seniority of September 23, 1913 as a retired commander in the January 1918 Navy List. He is listed as the Director of the Naval Transport Office. 

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Either his will or his widow's may direct a place to be buried. Still I think £1.50 per will from here:

https://www.gov.uk/search-will-probate

Although the actual will for Charles may only be held in Scotland.

1920 Probate Calender

2099399435_Screenshot2022-04-02at16_08_48.png.a4982a69a5b584a2278cc13d14a7b278.png

 

1965 Probate Calender

813740131_Screenshot2022-04-02at16_02_01.png.540945c8be5c33aa421c0dfd4e94549b.png

 

Travers

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19 minutes ago, travers61 said:

Although the actual will for Charles may only be held in Scotland.

There are two entries for his will on ScotlandsPeople. Viewing a will online on ScotlandsPeople costs 10 credits (GBP 2.50), so possibly 20 credits in total. If there is only one actual will, it will show as having already been paid for when you go to view the second entry. I suspect that there is only one will, but it has been indexed under two separate categories.

Forbes
Charles Hay
16/3/1920
C.B.E., Windmill Lodge, St. Andrews., Capt., R.N., d. 07/11/1919 in London, testate.
 
Cupar Sheriff Court
SC20/50/103
 
Forbes
Charles Hay
16/3/1920
C.B.E., Windmill Lodge, St. Andrews., Capt., R.N., d. 07/11/1919 in London, testate.
 
Cupar Sheriff Court Wills
SC20/56/20
Edited by Tawhiri
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