Jump to content
Free downloads from TNA ×
The Great War (1914-1918) Forum

Remembered Today:

2nd Lieut E Flatt, 5th/6th Royal Fusiliers - help needed to uncover my GFs final posting/service


SaraF

Recommended Posts

@PRC @FROGSMILE @kenf48 @Dai Bach y Sowldiwr @charlie962  and others,

Firstly, I am quite humbled by the time and effort you have taken in delving into Ernest's history and for the detail you have shared with me. You have provided much more info than I could have dared hope for. 

@FROGSMILE you are right about his rapid rise through the ranks, I couldn't believe how quickly he went from Private > L/Corp > Corp > Sgt and then WO11 (CSM). Sometimes with only a matter of weeks between promotions. Yet there was nothing in his upbringing to suggest an affinity for military life - except perhaps that he was a little older than a lot of recruits being just shy of 26 when he enlisted.

I have Ernest's medals and can confirm that the 14/15 Star has his rank as Serj in the East Surrey and that both the Victory and British War Medal are inscribed 2 Lieu. 

@charlie962 - Ernest was married in Ealing on 26th Feb 1918 so he must have returned to the UK after going to France and before sailing to Egypt. But I only have a very few pages of his diary covering 25/6/1918 to 01/09/1918 - from when he embarked for Egypt to the point where there was talk of moving to France. And the diary is incomplete with many days missing entries.

I believe that there were some of his letters published in the local newspaper (Dereham & Fakenham Times) at some point in the past - but the papers haven't been digitised and so the only way to access them is by visiting the archive when the town museum re-opens. It's been pretty much closed for 2 years but is planning to re-open in a month or so. I shall endeavour to fight my way into the archive and see what I can find! 

None of my surviving siblings or cousins have any idea about the details Ernest's war service - beyond knowing that he served and had been in France. After the war he returned to his home town, Dereham and ran a grocery business which then passed on to my uncle. My father (RAF) and uncle (Army) both served in WW2 and Ernest joined the Special Constabulary for the duration of WW2. 

I didn't know him well - I was only 9 when he died - but looking back on what he went through I realise that I am very fortunate to be here at all. 

Sara

Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 minutes ago, SaraF said:

I believe that there were some of his letters published in the local newspaper (Dereham & Fakenham Times) at some point in the past - but the papers haven't been digitised and so the only way to access them is by visiting the archive when the town museum re-opens. It's been pretty much closed for 2 years but is planning to re-open in a month or so. I shall endeavour to fight my way into the archive and see what I can find! 

I did look through my notes on the local contemporary newspaper articles but I've only begun to scratch the surface of transcribing the many thousands of images I've acquired over the years. I've been focussed on the four Norwich printed titles - the Eastern Daily Press, the Eastern Evening News, the Norwich Mercury and the Norfolk Chronicle - and I know I already have over 300 articles and items referring to East Dereham men transcribed. Unfortunately none of them relate to Ernest.

The Norfolk Library Service has the county titles on microfilm at the County Archive, with a second copy held at the relevant local library where possible. Unfortunately the bottleneck is the microfilm readers, which nowadays have to be cannibalised in order to keep what few they have running. I seem to remember an exhange with Kitty that the film and reader at East Dereham were removed to Fakenham for that reason. As it is if they are anything like the copies in the Local Studies section of the Forum library in central Norwich they have probably suffered mightily at the hands of "user error" over the years since the filming was done in 1995.

If there are issues with getting access to whatever resource they have at the town museum, I'd suggest giving the County Archive a call to see if they have the title and then arrange a visit. And if you or Kitty have any dates when an article might have appeared, drop me a PM and I'll have a look through my untranscribed stuff for the same period just in case I have something squirrelled away :)

Hope we've collectively been able to help you flesh out the story.

Cheers,
Peter

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, PRC said:

And if you or Kitty have any dates when an article might have appeared, drop me a PM and I'll have a look through my untranscribed stuff for the same period just in case I have something squirrelled away

@PRC I think Kitty has the dates and possibly even copies - I'll get in touch and see if she will share! 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 hours ago, PRC said:

That does leave one small uncertainly - whether the original medals were ever issued with his rank as Warrant Officer II, and if so did they get returned? From the notes on the MiC it certainly looks like his entitlement did originally go through on a rank and file page of the East Surrey Regiment service medal roll. It was even written in the correct place on the MiC before being overwritten with the reference for the relevant page of the Royal Fusiliers Officer service medal roll.

I suspect if the original page of the East Surrey Regiment Roll can be tracked down his entry will either be cancelled, or will reference returned medals.

On 23/03/2022 at 08:07, helpjpl said:

What does it say on the actual medal rolls ? There appears to be 3 on ancestry:

Flatt.jpg.c84ee312e54b78010cb0ff1fb38b3314.jpg

East Surrey Regiment

1.  Star Roll

Star.jpg.3bb6a35723623322150d91266699225c.jpg

https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?_phsrc=ROE8357&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true&indiv=1&dbid=5119&gsfn=Ernest&gsln=Flatt&cp=11&new=1&rank=1&uidh=icz&redir=false&gss=angs-d&pcat=39&fh=2&h=574305&recoff=&ml_rpos=3&queryId=0b5dec6333d4f3a7b99cec6ef133e448&_gl=1*1xjwev1*_ga*MTEwNzcyNzE1NC4xNjMyOTI2Nzg1*_ga_4PXYE4RLH1*MTY0ODExNTQwNS4xMTguMS4xNjQ4MTE1NTQ5LjA.

 

2.  British War Medal and Victory Medal

551956448_BWMV.jpg.31dc1142c5cbee6bb85b902278f2abc8.jpg

https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?_phsrc=ROE8360&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true&indiv=1&dbid=5119&gsfn=Ernest&gsln=Flatt&cp=11&new=1&rank=1&uidh=icz&redir=false&gss=angs-d&pcat=39&fh=1&h=574304&recoff=&ml_rpos=2&queryId=0b5dec6333d4f3a7b99cec6ef133e448&_gl=1*cqk20v*_ga*MTEwNzcyNzE1NC4xNjMyOTI2Nzg1*_ga_4PXYE4RLH1*MTY0ODExNTQwNS4xMTguMS4xNjQ4MTE2Mjc2LjA.

JP

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 21/03/2022 at 20:58, SaraF said:

I have a few pages of his diary which describe him sailing to Alexandria aboard the P&O Liner Caledonia, embarked on the ship on June 25th 1918 and landed Alexandria on June 30th. From there he moved "to Fayoum to join the 21st RBs on 4th July". He was clearly not happy in Egypt - struggling with the heat and the flies. His diary entries do not give any clue to what he was engaged in doing until the final page I have on 1st Sept when the entry reads "... everyone excited as to move, some idea of France". 

Battalions of the Territorial Force in WW1

The 18th, 23rd and 24th went to India. The 21st went to India via Egypt.

An article in the 1928 Rifle Brigade Chronicle, pages 162 to 182 inclusive, by Captain R.C. Bridgeman, covers the formation of these battalions, with a precis of each battalion’s war record.

https://wiki.fibis.org/w/The_Rifle_Brigade

@stiletto_33853

JP

stiletto_33853

Link to comment
Share on other sites

From the Bridgeman article that JP mentions:-

In April 1918 their Ross Rifles were replaced by Lee-Enfields

The embarkation of troops for France in that month caused some excitement, and the company at the docks turned out on one occasion to cope with some troops to whom the natives had sold liquor which disagreed with them. In May 1918 they were back at Cairo, relieving the 1st Garrison battalion Royal Irish Regiment, and in September they sailed from Port Tewfik in H.M.T. Palamcotta touching Aden on 24th September.

Their fate was not, however, an exciting one, for on 15th October they arrived at Fyzabad for Internal Security Duties.

During March 1919 they lost a large number of men returning to the coalfields, and in April 1919 they moved to Mdras with a detachment at Calicut. On 12th October they moved to Deolali and by 30th November were reduced to 83 all ranks. The cadre embarked in S.S. Macedonia arriving in Southampton on 26th December 1919 and was finally demobilised on 26th February.

What little there is of the War Diary terminates after 24th September 1918.

 

Andy

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...