Gallipoli RND Sector

[NR72]

Hello All,

I am attempting with professional help ! to overlay my  original RND sector map to a  present day one

I have the positions of  Brown house  and Romanos well but i need a couple more to  make it easier

Has anyone got any pin drops on google maps of definite  locations  or any lat/longs

Im guessing the Krithia road is in the original place

Thanks

Much appreciated

[WhiteStarLine]

Both Brown House and Romanos appear on the Gallipoli Gazetteer, which itself was a by-product of georeferencing a few dozen British, French and Ottoman maps.  Click or search on a name in the RHS and the location, description and lat, lon coordinates appear.  From memory there are over 600 items and all military ones were obtained or checked by clicking on the original name, changing the opacity to reveal the modern map and correlating the WGS84 lat, lons.  The entire spreadsheet is available by request - attribution required if the product is published.

Click to enlarge images.  Attribution IWM / WFA sample map / tMapper online gazetteer / HA georeferencing / NZ and Turkish Government gazetting names / locations

[michaeldr]

http://wfa.tmapper.com/dardanelles.html

That's a great resource Bill; fantastic work!

[NR72]

14 hours ago, WhiteStarLine said:

Both Brown House and Romanos appear on the Gallipoli Gazetteer, which itself was a by-product of georeferencing a few dozen British, French and Ottoman maps.  Click or search on a name in the RHS and the location, description and lat, lon coordinates appear.  From memory there are over 600 items and all military ones were obtained or checked by clicking on the original name, changing the opacity to reveal the modern map and correlating the WGS84 lat, lons.  The entire spreadsheet is available by request - attribution required if the product is published.

Click to enlarge images.  Attribution IWM / WFA sample map / tMapper online gazetteer / HA georeferencing / NZ and Turkish Government gazetting names / locations

Thank you very much fantastic

[NR72]

Had a quick look , Backhouse post looks like its the Aid post rather that Back house post, I think its up a bit further on the left.  Im confused with the location of Romanos well looks too far over to the right to me 

[michaeldr]

You'll find Romano's Well pin-pointed in this article https://canakkalemuharebeleri1915.com/genel/muharebe-alani-yer-isimleri/seddulbahir/549-subasi-mevki-i-romano-s-well. This is a very well researched and clearly presented website which is highly recommended (you can use your computer's translation facility)

[NR72]

1 hour ago, michaeldr said:

You'll find Romano's Well pin-pointed in this article https://canakkalemuharebeleri1915.com/genel/muharebe-alani-yer-isimleri/seddulbahir/549-subasi-mevki-i-romano-s-well. This is a very well researched and clearly presented website which is highly recommended (you can use your computer's translation facility)

Thanks Michael link doesn't seem to work 

[michaeldr]

It worked just now on my 'phone.  Perhaps it was something temporary last evening?

[NR72]

Hi Michael , just keeps saying access denied ?

[michaeldr]

The first few seconds are (if I've understood correctly) their security check of a visitor's browser. Perhaps your browser indicates a problem?

These are the coordinates which they quote for Romano's Well  40°04´03.98"K - 26°12´36.09"D

This is the well as it is seen today

 

With thanks to https://canakkalemuharebeleri1915.com/

Edited 21 March , 2022 by michaeldr

[WhiteStarLine]

Michael, many thanks for this.  Georeferencing is a process of tiling known features and interpolating the ones you don't know, hence the mismatch from time to time.  When there is an indisputable location, it is great to replace the interpolated figure with the known one.  I had no trouble accessing the site this morning or just then and the key for me is: 

 

UBAŞI MEVKİİ (ROMANO'S WELL)

Koordinat: 40°04´03.98"K - 26°12´36.09"D

I will replace the gazetteer with this value.

@NR72, if you use the surveyed points from the Turkish Mapping Directorate (accessed via geonames.org), you can use an Open Source program like QGIS.  Half a dozen clearly identifiable ridge lines, survey points and sometimes cross roads on the modern and historic map will give you enough points for a Polynomial 1 or 2 transformation that is suitable accuracy for almost any task.  I know people who find 20 or more common sites and use the Thin Plate Spline technique but that is on the Western Front where there is more correlation and a higher survey quality.

Good luck with it!

[NR72]

Thank you !

[NR72]

28 minutes ago, michaeldr said:

The first few seconds are (if I've understood correctly) their security check of a visitor's browser. Perhaps your browser indicates a problem?

These are the coordinates which they quote for Romano's Well  40°04´03.98"K - 26°12´36.09"D

This is the well as it is seen today

 

With thanks to https://canakkalemuharebeleri1915.com/

Thank you, yes for some reason it doesnt like me trying to access it ?

[WhiteStarLine]

That's a good fit with the Turkish Mapping Directorate (Brigadier General Mehmet Sevki Pasa) set of 43 maps showing the battlefield in 1916.  So I'll update the Gallipoli Gazetteer with the new values.  Looks like there is a significant amount of research on the website Michael cited.

Thanks for that Michael.

[NR72]

3 hours ago, WhiteStarLine said:

Michael, many thanks for this.  Georeferencing is a process of tiling known features and interpolating the ones you don't know, hence the mismatch from time to time.  When there is an indisputable location, it is great to replace the interpolated figure with the known one.  I had no trouble accessing the site this morning or just then and the key for me is: 

 

UBAŞI MEVKİİ (ROMANO'S WELL)

2 hours ago, WhiteStarLine said:

That's a good fit with the Turkish Mapping Directorate (Brigadier General Mehmet Sevki Pasa) set of 43 maps showing the battlefield in 1916.  So I'll update the Gallipoli Gazetteer with the new values.  Looks like there is a significant amount of research on the website Michael cited.

Thanks for that Michael.

 

Koordinat: 40°04´03.98"K - 26°12´36.09"D

I will replace the gazetteer with this value.

@NR72, if you use the surveyed points from the Turkish Mapping Directorate (accessed via geonames.org), you can use an Open Source program like QGIS.  Half a dozen clearly identifiable ridge lines, survey points and sometimes cross roads on the modern and historic map will give you enough points for a Polynomial 1 or 2 transformation that is suitable accuracy for almost any task.  I know people who find 20 or more common sites and use the Thin Plate Spline technique but that is on the Western Front where there is more correlation and a higher survey quality.

Good luck with it!

Thanks all , i can see this is  going to be more tricky than i envisaged . I do have someone (GIS) i can ask for help . JIm sure this must have been done before for the RND sector. Just want to walk the trench lines when i go back in May

[michaeldr]

When will you be there in May? Will you be with the Gallipoli Association/Battle Honours tour?

 

[NR72]

1 minute ago, michaeldr said:

When will you be there in May? Will you be with the Gallipoli Association/Battle Honours tour?

 

With Peter Hart on the 16th 

[michaeldr]

OK. Sorry that we will not meet-up but have a good time 

Edited 21 March , 2022 by michaeldr

[NR72]

21 minutes ago, michaeldr said:

OK. Sorry that we will not meet-up but have a good time 

Thanks Michael , another time !