What happens when promotion is gazetted after his death ?

[davidbohl]

This chap died 30/04/1918, his post death records vary from 2/Lt and Lt (SDGW have him as Robert !)

Roland Henry Brewerton CWGC

Gazetted 28th Sept 1918 as Lt

However his probate in 1920 states second lieutenant

Is it safe to say he was the more senior Rank ?

thanks

Dave

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Matlock1418]

In my opinion the effective date/rank is applicable = Lieutenant from 25 April 1918 and at date of death, regardlesss of the date of the later publication of the LG.

Documents, including the LG, often took time to catch up and earlier items such as a Will are likely to have been signed in his first commissioned rank of 2nd Lieutenant and that likely to have transferred to the Probate document.

M

[Chesterboy]

Yes, it’s a grey area.  John Kipling and Wilfred Owen are the classic cases. 
 

Wilfred Owen was recorded as a second Lieutenant in the battalion war diary when he was killed and the original battlefield cross carried the rank of second Lieutenant.

[Chesterboy]

Owen was killed in action on 4 November 1918 during the crossing of the Sambre–Oise Canal, exactly one week (almost to the hour) before the signing of the Armistice which ended the war, and was promoted to the rank of Lieutenant the day after his death.

the Grave Registration Report Form shows 2/LT 

but the cemetery register and headstone schedule both show the Rank of Lieutenant 

Edited 18 March , 2022 by Chesterboy

[Matlock1418]

15 hours ago, Chesterboy said:

Yes, it’s a grey area

In my opinion not so in the Army's opinion.  The date in the LG [regardless of the LG dating] is the rank they would recognise.

The likes of CWGC and other documents can vary.  Appointments and non-substantive and acting ranks can often get thrown into the mix in these other places. 

And CWGC are classic in this approach in that they commonly somewhat 'up-rank' bury/commemorate as a Lance Corporal [an appointment] whereas the Army would have them as Private [substantive rank].

M

[A Lancashire Fusilier by Proxy]

Edition 30218 of the Supplemant to the London Gazette dated 4 August 1917 had an enormous number of back-dated appointments in it, especially, perhaps exclusively, for the Territorial Force, to include my grandfather's confirmation as a permanent Captain, he having been a Temporary Captain since May 1916. I haven't been able to get to the bottom of why there was this large number of backdated appointments, though the way my grandfather writes I think there must have been some quite far-reaching review of appointments, as he mentions a few of his friends being either allowed to retain their temporary promotions, or being demoted back to their substantive ranks.

Anyway, the point about it for this thread is that by 4 August 1917 some of the men had already died, but they were still gazetted as being entitled to the promotion. I attach a copy of a page extracted from the publication, a page which contains the names of Lancashire Fusiliers, and it will be seen that 2nd Lieutenant L.H. Bloy, promoted to Captain, and  2nd Lieutenant J.E Hartington promoted to Lieutenant, both in the first column, are cases in point

.

[Steven Broomfield]

Not a GW one, but Ron Middleton, VC, RAAF, died (in November 1942, winning his VC) as a Flight Sergeant, but by the time his award was Gazetted he had been promoted to Pilot Officer, which rank appears on his headstone. 

Edited 21 March , 2022 by Steven Broomfield