Private C. S. Hole 32769 Sherwood Foresters

[GERRYD]

Hi

I've said before I'm a collector and restorer of Great War wrist watches (I'm not a dealer)

I've recently bought this watch and I was wondering if any one would be able to help me. I subscribe to a number of online resources but my search for this individual has drawn blanks except for that the 3rd Battalion of the Sherwood Foresters was based in the UK during the war and was a training facility on the south coast. The inscription reads Private C S Hole 32769 Sherwood Foresters .

Pete

[ajsmith]

He was transferred to the 15th Royal Scots in 1917 service number 325681. He was killed on the 26th August 1917 and is memorialised at Thiepval. His service record has survived and can be viewed on Ancestry and FMP.

[Swinesheadvillage]

Hi Pete

There is a family history on this site here

https://secure.nottinghamshire.gov.uk/RollOfHonour/People/Details/21155

Hope this helps

Kind Regards

Derek

[Matlock1418]

12 minutes ago, ajsmith said:

He was transferred to the 15th Royal Scots in 1917 service number 325681. He was killed on the 26th August 1917 and is memorialised at Thiepval.

Pension index cards at WFA/Fold3 - Cyril Seymour HOLE, 325681, Royal Scots

Mother: Mrs Mary HOLE, 11 St Mark's Terrace, Portland Street, Mansfield, Notts - so possibly worth looking in local newspapers, you might perhaps even find a photo

M

 

Edited 14 March , 2022 by Matlock1418
typo

[GERRYD]

WOW

Tony, Derek and Matlock

Thanks a lot that is fantastic. 

Tony what is FMP?

I looked on ancestry but I didn't find him.

 

many  thanks

Pete

[BarbaraG]

FMP - Find My Past 

Ancestry 24 images - used full name for search.

 

Edited 14 March , 2022 by BarbaraG

[Swinesheadvillage]

Hi Pete

Cyril's father made an enquiry via the International Comittee of the Red Cross as to the fate of his son, who he had been informed was wounded and missing. I am not sure what Tel. Fac translates as, as a reply, but the lack of any other information shows its not positive.

https://grandeguerre.icrc.org/en/File/Details/1232358/3/2/

Hope this helps

Kind Regards

Derek

[GERRYD]

Derek 

Thanks for the link. I found from other peoples efforts that he died from his wounds on the day he was reported wounded.

 

I need an education, I think? 

To trace soldiers and others I mainly use Ancestry but this time I struggled hence my post. I searched for C S Hole  guessed his date of birth around 1890 +_ 10 years but I didn't get a hit. I had the same result on FMP or no result to be precise?

Is there something I'm missing?

Pete

[GERRYD]

On 14/03/2022 at 15:55, Swinesheadvillage said:

Hi Pete

Cyril's father made an enquiry via the International Comittee of the Red Cross as to the fate of his son, who he had been informed was wounded and missing. I am not sure what Tel. Fac translates as, as a reply, but the lack of any other information shows its not positive.

https://grandeguerre.icrc.org/en/File/Details/1232358/3/2/

Hope this helps

Kind Regards

Derek

Derick

Does this link indicate he died as a POW? or simply the British informed the Red Cross of Cyril’s fate. Interesting from the watch side of things it’s not listed in the returned property on the Nottinghamshire link? The watch is in actual fact very high quality the movement being Movado. Anyway thanks again for the group input and help.

Pete

[Swinesheadvillage]

Hi Pete

There was nothing to stop an enquiry as to a soldier's circumstance, via the ICRC. However, an enquiry was more usually made when a soldier was reported missing and his death had not been witnessed. Cyril's service papers only describe 'wounded and missing' on 26/8/17, so the family were seeking another avenue of enquiry as to his fate. The lack of a refererence number on the enquiry form indicates that the Germans had no knowledge of him and that he had not been a prisoner.

To get some idea of the actions of that day,, the war diary can be accessed here. Its free after registration with no financial details required. https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C7353893

I was also intrigued by the watch. Cyril was a 19yr old clerk on enlistment and it seems a rather expensive buy for a lad of that age and means. I wondered if it was an employers gift on conscription, after death, or some such? Also M Co (M Company 3rd Battn SF?) doesnt ring any bells. As per the attached, it seems the watch didn't go to France with him, (courtesy of FMP)

Re your previous post on not finding any info on Ancestry or FMP, my very limited advice would be to use the soldier number in keywords on the military search on Ancestry and the soldier number equivilent on FMP.

Hope this helps

Kind Regards

Derek

[GERRYD]

Derick

From my initial research I thought he had insisted in Nottinghamshire and that’s how he ended up in the Sherwood Foresters. I also learnt that the 3rd Battalion were a training unit on the south coast. As you say he’s unlikely to have the sort of money for the watch but he may have said where he was going for his training. While it’s top notch watch it’s not the best and I would estimate it would have cost between £2 -£3, like you say it’s unlikely he was paid a lot of money. May be he was never given the watch? Well never know.

Yet again thanks for the tips, I think the fact his service number changed and caused me some issues.

Pete