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Remembered Today:

Information on my great grandpa's regiment


LizzieJ
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Hello 

I am hoping someone may be able to help me. I am researching my grandma's family for her 90th birthday this year and I am trying to find out more about her father, Frank Rolf. He served during the war and we have these three photos of him in uniform. Does anyone know what regiment this could be? I have found a possible result of a Frank Rolf serving in the 19th (County of London) Battalion (St. Pancras) between 1917 and 1918. Could this be him? Does this match the uniform below? Any help would be greatly appreciated!

Many thanks

Lizzie

Franks regiment.jpg

20220308_142953.jpg

Frank Rolf.jpg

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Yes it does match the insignia shown (see cap badge and shoulder title below).  When formed in 1908 the battalion’s badge was blackened, but by 1914 it was issued in plain brass for khaki service dress and white metal (nickel silver) for full dress with rifle green forage caps.  Unlike many of the other London Regiment battalions, the 19th did not favour black, rifles pattern buttons.

521CB0C2-9B27-4ED3-BF67-9C73A9A5B07F.jpeg

733CE39D-8DE4-4F53-B4FB-3430CF41530D.jpeg

7FCA3600-5434-4EB9-A51F-319CF5250F00.jpeg

 

Edited by FROGSMILE
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I assume you mean 613243 which you have attached to Frank on what I assume is your family tree on Ancestry.

The medal roll is useful. It only shows the 19th battalion and shows 1a 6/3/17 to 11/11/18 the last day of the war. 1a is code for France and Flanders. So he was in that area for that period minus any short periods for leave etc he may have spent in the UK.

613243 appears on 2 War Office Casualty list as wounded. One on 12/10/17 and secondly 27/6/18. No details of the wounds were entered on these lists. In each case the Nok address is Finsbury Park N. This appears to fit in to the 1911 census for the Frank Rolf in your tree. In each case wounding would have actually taken place in the few weeks previous

You can follow the movements etc of the 19th by looking at the unit War Diaries. 6/3/17 (he would have actually joined perhap a week or so later) is on thiss page

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/discoveryui-content/view/445057:60779?_phsrc=RqI2914&_phstart=successSource&ml_rpos=20&queryId=a13589c4d77f468243896dbe1f4f931b

You can alternatively download the whole thing from the national archives for free. We can provide the link. 

 

 

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1 hour ago, LizzieJ said:

Hello 

I am hoping someone may be able to help me. I am researching my grandma's family for her 90th birthday this year and I am trying to find out more about her father, Frank Rolf. He served during the war and we have these three photos of him in uniform. Does anyone know what regiment this could be? I have found a possible result of a Frank Rolf serving in the 19th (County of London) Battalion (St. Pancras) between 1917 and 1918. Could this be him? Does this match the uniform below? Any help would be greatly appreciated!

Many thanks

Lizzie

Franks regiment.jpg

If he enlisted in 1917 then I suspect that the group photo might show the third line battalion, 3/19th, at Chisledon in late 1917, from whence it sent drafts of reinforcements to 1/19th and 2/19th.  See: http://www.swindonweb.com/index.asp?m=8&s=116&ss=763

It moved to Blackdown in March 1918, where it remained until the end of the war.

D2878E67-7097-4750-9498-710C438322C9.jpeg

Edited by FROGSMILE
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Thank you so much both for all the information above! This is great. I spoke to my family earlier and they do remember Frank saying he was injured during the war so it does all fit. Many thanks for the links I certainly will look through both and hopefully add some more information for my grandma. Thank you once again! 

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3 hours ago, LizzieJ said:

Thank you so much both for all the information above! This is great. I spoke to my family earlier and they do remember Frank saying he was injured during the war so it does all fit. Many thanks for the links I certainly will look through both and hopefully add some more information for my grandma. Thank you once again! 

Glad to help Lizzie.  Before going to Chisledon in November 1917, 3/19th were at Winchester in one of the several  hutted camps there (there were also two permanent, brick built barracks in the city), so I guess it depends on when in 1917 he enlisted as to the location of the photos. 

Edited by FROGSMILE
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Just a suggestion but putting the name of the regiment in the title will help for any future requests

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Hi Lizzie,

20 hours ago, Mark1959 said:

613243 appears on 2 War Office Casualty list as wounded. One on 12/10/17 and secondly 27/6/18.

Those lists can be seen at the National Library of Scotland - link. From them it might be possible to date when 613243 Rolf was actually wounded (within a day or so) by looking for surviving records for men on the same list to see what they say, making an inference, and then cross referencing back to the battalion war diary to see if anything obvious jumps out. Looking at the first list I cheated a bit by looking for men from his regiment within the service number range 610001 - 630000. A quick whiz through gave me:

613475 Rogers - admitted to Field Ambulance on 11.9.1917image.png.f8205d49c18d31e0b91d135467f9385c.png

613745 Murfit - admitted to hospital on 15.9.17image.png.81a5658ec3193fd6ac8b6834329910ae.png
Images sourced from Findmypast

Passing down the evacuation chain I suspect that Frank may have been wounded in the second week of September 1917. I think that any treatment that he received though was in France, as if he had returned to the UK there would be a gap in his overseas dates in active theatre shown in his medal roll record. 

Regards
Chris

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