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Remembered Today:

William Francey


michaeldr
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At the request of the Gallipoli Association's founder, Major Edgar H. W. Banner, the association's tie and badge were designed by William Francey in 1969. The association's journal 'The Gallipolian' describes William Francey as:

"ex-Lance Corporal Piper 1/6th Highland Light Infantry, 52nd Division." 

Can anyone kindly confirm those details or add to the biographical details.

Thanks in advance. Michael

 

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4 minutes ago, michaeldr said:

At the request of the Gallipoli Association's founder, Major Edgar H. W. Banner, the association's tie and badge were designed by William Francey in 1969. The association's journal 'The Gallipolian' describes William Francey as:

"ex-Lance Corporal Piper 1/6th Highland Light Infantry, 52nd Division." 

Can anyone kindly confirm those details or add to the biographical details.

Thanks in advance. Michael

 

The best people to help with matters pertaining to pipers are @TullochArdand @Ron Abbott.  Hopefully they will be along soon.

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Hi,

Looks like.....

William J Francey, Pte. 1256/  L/Cpl.240066 1st/6th (City of Glasgow) Batt.(Territorial) HLI. 2.7.15.to 2b. Disemb. 21.3.19.

1929...??? Wife Jessie, (Jessica MacGregor) 71 George St., Partick??? Willaim John b. 18.5.1899 Ireland??? 1961 135 Earl St., Scotstoun, Glasgow

Regards Barry

Edited by The Inspector
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240066 W Francey is listed as a Piper (and LCPL) in the 1/6th HLI in Seton & Grant's 'The Pipes of War'.  Also mention of him having been wounded on 15th Aug 1915.

He (as 1256 Francey, W of the 6th Bn. HLI) is listed as having been wounded in the 28th Sep 1915 edition of The Scotsman -

 

 

Francey.png

Edited by Ron Abbott
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I find the WJF that the Inspector refers to in Glasgow as early as 1922 in electoral rolls. A person with the same address is in a passenger list coming back from New York in 1924. He is described as a shipwright. This man’s age is given as 28 and so born c1895-6.

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Bob, Barry, Ron & Mark,

Many thanks for your help and assistance here; all very useful. To clarify a couple of points 

15 hours ago, The Inspector said:

1961 135 Earl St., Scotstoun, Glasgow

This refers to a census entry?

and (as I'm out of my depth with the finer points of Piper ranks)

10 hours ago, Ron Abbott said:

Piper (and LCPL)

His rank would officially be Piper Lance Corporal, or as given in the op, 'Lance Corporal Piper'?

Thanks again everyone

Michael

 

 

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14 minutes ago, michaeldr said:

Bob, Barry, Ron & Mark,

Many thanks for your help and assistance here; all very useful. To clarify a couple of points 

This refers to a census entry?

and (as I'm out of my depth with the finer points of Piper ranks)

His rank would officially be Piper Lance Corporal, or as given in the op, 'Lance Corporal Piper'?

Thanks again everyone

Michael

 

 

I don't know what the official nomenclature was but he would commonly be referred to either as Pipe Lance-Corporal (note Pipe and not Piper) or Lance-Corporal Piper.....I suspect the latter would be more official given the change from Pipe-Major to Serjeant-Piper, Drum-Major to Serjeant-Drummer (for the period between 1881 and 1928 and subsequently reversed)

Maybe somebody else knows what officialdom had to say about it.....

 

 

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1961 is from electoral rolls I believe as I have found such a record

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8 hours ago, michaeldr said:

This refers to a census entry?

Michael

 

 

Hi Michael,

14/15 Medal award rolls W J Francey Pte.1256. MIC details as previously posted.

The address 135 Earl St. Scotstoun, Glasgow refers to the Electoral Register. There is one public tree on Ancestry, referring to a William John Francey with wife Jessica (Nee MacGregor) and one private tree.

As Mark has posted there are numerous entries for a  William J Francey and his wife, Jessie, up to 1962. According to the public tree this couple had a daughter Mary Stewart Francey b. 15.1.1922  in Glasgow and died 21.10.2003 in Livingston..  but no further information, however may have nothing to do with your man.!!!

Regards Barry

Edited by The Inspector
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19 hours ago, Mark1959 said:

I find the WJF that the Inspector refers to in Glasgow as early as 1922 in electoral rolls. A person with the same address is in a passenger list coming back from New York in 1924. He is described as a shipwright. This man’s age is given as 28 and so born c1895-6.

Hi Mark and all,

On the 1st October, 1923 William Francey, 27 yrs, "Scotch" is on board the "Celtic" from  Liverpool to Boston Massachusetts, USA, he is a Carpenter b.1896 in Ballysillan, Ireland. His wife is Mrs. Francey at 71 George Street, Whiteinch, Glasgow. !!!

The 1924 passenger list aboard the "Assyria" shows William Francey's intended destination to be  "Foreign Countries" and not marked with a "x" under "Scotland. ???

There is a William John Francey b.5.6.1896/7 (depending upon which docs you read) in Ontario, Canada who enlisted in the CEF in 1918, Pte.3059055. A tree on Ancestry has the same details as above BUT I doubt very much that is correct. This man died on 21st October, 1973 in Ontario, Canada. In 1935 he was living in Ontario. 

Regards Barry

Edited by The Inspector
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On 07/03/2022 at 21:13, Ron Abbott said:

240066 W Francey is listed as a Piper (and LCPL) in the 1/6th HLI in Seton & Grant's 'The Pipes of War'.  Also mention of him having been wounded on 15th Aug 1915

William Francey was wounded on 15th(or 16th?) August 1915 – this was during a period of feint attacks at Helles aimed at retaining Turkish divisions there which otherwise could have been transferred to meet the new allied landings at Suvla and the attacks at Anzac.

The 6th HLI were tasked

“to join up the trenches which ran on the flanks of the Vineyard by completing the one which ran across it, commenced by the 42nd Div. and continuing it to the south-eastward. They were to have 100 yds of trench completed before 2.30am on the 16th(August 1915) and then were to attack the Turkish lines on the further side of the Vineyard, all of which were heavily wired. In the following 72 hours, three companies did 60 hours work, and one did 48 hours in order to finish to time. The men were almost dropping from fatigue and lack of sleep at the end, but they completed their task by 10.50pm on the 15th(August 1915.) Whilst they were doing this, the Turks had to be kept at bay by sniping and bombing, so that there was little or no rest at all for anyone in the 6th HLI during this period.”

quote:- The men were almost dropping from fatigue and lack of sleep at the end

It is perhaps no surprise then that the attack at 02.30 hrs on 16th August 1915 was unsuccessful and in fact it ground to a halt against fierce opposition by 03.05 hrs: “The intensity and volume of the Turkish rifle and machine-gun fire in reply was startling, ripping up the British sandbags, and indicating the number of machine-guns that the Turks had available.”

6th HLI casualties were 22 Wounded and 8 Missing.

1864929973_Map6thHLIAug1915.jpg.5fffaf8c4ff1f505725a3afc91192fa0.jpg

Quotes from the 52nd Divisional history by Lt-Col R R Thompson MC; casualty figures and sketch map from the 6th HLI WD

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Ron, Mark & Barry

Many thanks for your help with this

Michael

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