Interesting find with name

[Arne Vandendriessche]

Hello,

 

Today I found something that might be interesting.
It is a round lid of something with a diameter of 4 cm.
The material is silver plated copper (I think).
There are many stamps in it (including in the middle a house with two stars on the roof). If you turn it over so that the stamps are reversed, a name will be engraved underneath. I am 80% sure it is personally engraved as you can clearly see the dots you see on an engraved 14-18 copper bomb shell.
It could be something like a piece of pocket watch, but it's quite thin.
The engraved text is as I would write my name as A.Vandendriessche.
But in the first letter I can't clearly recognize a letter because it is very ornate.
The last name is Thomsen. I can't find any results with this name on the internet so I don't think it's a brand.
I found it near Mendinghem where there was a hospital during WW1 in Poperinge.
When I look on a website, I see that there is a soldier with a similar name on Mendinghem.
His name is John ThomsOn but not Thomsen as in the engraving.
It is also possible that that soldier was healed and went home and was not buried in a military cemetery. I may be hoping a little too much, but I have a good feeling about it.
Attached is a drawing of what the stamps look like and the name is shown in red.
Everything is in the inside of the lid. Also attached is a photo of the inside with the stamps and engraving. The small stamps are not clearly visible, but the engraving is. Does anyone know what it is and if it really is a soldier's name?

 

Greetings Arne

[FROGSMILE]

1 hour ago, Arne Vandendriessche said:

Hello,

 

Today I found something that might be interesting.
It is a round lid of something with a diameter of 4 cm.
The material is silver plated copper (I think).
There are many stamps in it (including in the middle a house with two stars on the roof). If you turn it over so that the stamps are reversed, a name will be engraved underneath. I am 80% sure it is personally engraved as you can clearly see the dots you see on an engraved 14-18 copper bomb shell.
It could be something like a piece of pocket watch, but it's quite thin.
The engraved text is as I would write my name as A.Vandendriessche.
But in the first letter I can't clearly recognize a letter because it is very ornate.
The last name is Thomsen. I can't find any results with this name on the internet so I don't think it's a brand.
I found it near Mendinghem where there was a hospital during WW1 in Poperinge.
When I look on a website, I see that there is a soldier with a similar name on Mendinghem.
His name is John ThomsOn but not Thomsen as in the engraving.
It is also possible that that soldier was healed and went home and was not buried in a military cemetery. I may be hoping a little too much, but I have a good feeling about it.
Attached is a drawing of what the stamps look like and the name is shown in red.
Everything is in the inside of the lid. Also attached is a photo of the inside with the stamps and engraving. The small stamps are not clearly visible, but the engraving is. Does anyone know what it is and if it really is a soldier's name?

 

Greetings Arne

It looks a bit like the inner cover of a pocket watch Arme.  Most good quality pocket watches had two protective covers over the mechanical workings of the watch, a thin inner, and a thicker outer.  Both were on hinges.  The inner, which was slightly smaller to fit inside the outer, often had all the proof markings and the watch makers trade stamp.  I think that you have found the inner from such a watch.  The engraved name is probably the owner’s name.

 

 

Edited 2 March , 2022 by FROGSMILE

[GWF1967]

2 hours ago, Arne Vandendriessche said:

Hello,

 

Today I found something that might be interesting.
It is a round lid of something with a diameter of 4 cm.
The material is silver plated copper (I think).
There are many stamps in it (including in the middle a house with two stars on the roof). If you turn it over so that the stamps are reversed, a name will be engraved underneath. I am 80% sure it is personally engraved as you can clearly see the dots you see on an engraved 14-18 copper bomb shell.
It could be something like a piece of pocket watch, but it's quite thin.
The engraved text is as I would write my name as A.Vandendriessche.
But in the first letter I can't clearly recognize a letter because it is very ornate.
The last name is Thomsen. I can't find any results with this name on the internet so I don't think it's a brand.
I found it near Mendinghem where there was a hospital during WW1 in Poperinge.
When I look on a website, I see that there is a soldier with a similar name on Mendinghem.
His name is John ThomsOn but not Thomsen as in the engraving.
It is also possible that that soldier was healed and went home and was not buried in a military cemetery. I may be hoping a little too much, but I have a good feeling about it.
Attached is a drawing of what the stamps look like and the name is shown in red.
Everything is in the inside of the lid. Also attached is a photo of the inside with the stamps and engraving. The small stamps are not clearly visible, but the engraving is. Does anyone know what it is and if it really is a soldier's name?

 

Greetings Arne

It looks like “F. Thomsen” to my eye. 

[Arne Vandendriessche]

 

Thank you very much both,

 

There is no hinge on it.

 

Is there a way to find out who it belonged to?
The soldier was probably admitted to Mendinghem CCS but was allowed to go home with wounds? I'll see if I can find out what brand it is.

 

Greetings Arne

 

Edited 3 March , 2022 by Arne Vandendriessche

[Interested]

Doesn't the Gothic font suggest some kind of souvenir rather than personal property?

Perhaps?

[6RRF]

33 minutes ago, Interested said:

Doesn't the Gothic font suggest some kind of souvenir rather than personal property?

Perhaps?

I'd say that it looks more like "Old English" script rather than "Fractur"

[TEW]

I wondered if the Gothic font and surname would equate to a German.

NB. Just noted the Fractur post.

If the initial is a C there is a C Thomsen of the AIF #724.

Or two A Thomsens.

TEW

[AOK4]

I'd say its "G Thomsen" and it may very well be German.

[GreyC]

I´d second Jan and would point to Schleswig-Hostein or Denmark as possible area, if German or Danish.

GreyC

Edited 3 March , 2022 by GreyC

[FROGSMILE]

9 hours ago, Arne Vandendriessche said:

 

Thank you very much both,

 

There is no hinge on it.

 

Is there a way to find out who it belonged to?
The soldier was probably admitted to Mendinghem CCS but was allowed to go home with wounds? I'll see if I can find out what brand it is.

 

Greetings Arne

 

Sometimes the inner clipped on via a lip around the edge (that coincided with a recess) rather than being attached by a hinge. It was removed via a recess in the main part of the watch in which a thumb nail could apply leverage.

Edited 3 March , 2022 by FROGSMILE

[robbie56]

JG Graves, watchmaker from Sheffield ?

 

[Arne Vandendriessche]

Hey,

Thanks a lot for the info,
I once consulted a forum of clocks, and they tell something about the little house in the middle, and I think it's from a German brand by Eduard Freiburghaus. I don't understand the "clock vocabulary" yet :-). I'm still waiting for the next info, but when I have it I'll pass it on here too. I think the first letter of the soldier is an F. Both of the capital letters use the same graceful curl, and if I omit that I end up with an F.
So, a german soldier whose last name is thomsen, and he's been to mending him but he's not buried there.

Greetings Arne

[TEW]

If it does say 0.600 and that is the silver standard that seems to equate to an Egyptian standard.

Doesn't prove much as anyone could have been in Egypt.

Can you double check it's not 0.800 which would be more European.

You can do a silver test at home!

https://www.coincommunity.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=10649

TEW

 

[JWK]

A similar watch by Edouard Freiburghaus, from after 1902 (Axios was introduced in 1902) He was from Courtelary, Switzerland. Later moved to Basel.

Has the JG-in-a-lozenge mark.

https://www.catawiki.com/en/l/26483733-axiom-edouard-freiburghaus-silver-pocket-watch-no-reserve-price-63285-men-1901-1949

Looks like it was made between 1887 and 1902:

http://www.mikrolisk.de/show.php?site=280&suchwort=Freiburghaus&searchWhere=all#sucheMarker

 

 

 

[Arne Vandendriessche]

Thanks

 

Edited 3 March , 2022 by Arne Vandendriessche

[Arne Vandendriessche]

So,

It's about a German soldier
His first name probably starts with an F
His last name is thomsen
He was once treated in Mendinghem (27.E.6.d.07.87), but he survived.

Hopefully this will help me find out who it belonged to?

Arne

[Arne Vandendriessche]

Probably a German Soldier.

[Arne Vandendriessche]

Hey,

Since the soldier may have inherited the pocket watch, and the first letter is not so clear I just use the last name.
In total there are 5 Thomsen's that have a place in a military cemetery.

Neil Thomsen is buried very close to Mendinghem.
The other four are buried a little further.
I don't know if anyone can find out if any of these soldiers have ever been to Mendinghem? And where can I find the names of soldiers buried in a non-military cemetery?

Another question about the German soldiers:

Why did the English soldiers take the German soldiers into an English hospital? And what happened if they survived? Were they prisoners of war?

 

Arne

[JWK]

Supposing the Swiss "watch" was made somewhere between 1880-1900, it may well have been this Thomsen's grandfather's (supposing his father was still alive), and this grandfather may well have had totally different first name than his grandson.

Why engrave the name in a place where no one would ever see it?

Did Edouard Freiburghaus export his products to Germany, to Britain, or was it purchased on a holiday in Switzerland?

Many questions. Anyway, you have found yourself an interesting object!

[AOK4]

Soldiers sometimes put their names on other personal objects, in normal times to indicate the things were theirs, in wartime to make identification possible in case the ID tag was lost.

There's no way of telling anything more about the owner or how it ended up there. The watch may well have been a "souvenir" from the battlefield taken by an allied soldier.

And I still stick to "G" as a first name.

Wounded POWs were treated on both sides. Once they had recovered sufficiently they were taken to a POW camp as any other POW (unless they were eligible for exchange via neutral states if they were considered not useful any more for war service).

[Arne Vandendriessche]

Thanks,

 

So you think not one name can be excluded from these five? There is also a production number, I don't know if a year can be found with that?

11 hours ago, Arne Vandendriessche said:

Hallo,

Aangezien de soldaat het zakhorloge misschien heeft geërfd en de eerste letter niet zo duidelijk is, gebruik ik gewoon de achternaam.
In totaal zijn er 5 Thomsen's die een plek hebben op een militaire begraafplaats.

Neil Thomsen ligt heel dicht bij Mendinghem begraven.
De andere vier liggen wat verder begraven.
Ik weet niet of iemand erachter kan komen of een van deze soldaten ooit in Mendinghem is geweest? En waar kan ik de namen vinden van soldaten begraven op een niet-militaire begraafplaats?

Nog een vraag over de Duitse soldaten:

Waarom namen de Engelse soldaten de Duitse soldaten mee naar een Engels ziekenhuis? En wat gebeurde er als ze het overleefden? Waren zij krijgsgevangenen?

 

Arne

 

Arne

[FROGSMILE]

12 hours ago, JWK said:

Supposing the Swiss "watch" was made somewhere between 1880-1900, it may well have been this Thomsen's grandfather's (supposing his father was still alive), and this grandfather may well have had totally different first name than his grandson.

Why engrave the name in a place where no one would ever see it?

Did Edouard Freiburghaus export his products to Germany, to Britain, or was it purchased on a holiday in Switzerland?

Many questions. Anyway, you have found yourself an interesting object!

You make a good point about the engraving, but I have actually seen a name on the inside a few times before.  In each case it was because other engraving was on the outside.  In some incidences the outside case was decorated with filigree, or other artistic designs, and in others it was inscribed with words something like: “to father from Mary and Thomas”, or “from the chairman and board of H. Jones & Co” (as examples). Ownership had then been marked on the inside subsequently.

Edited 4 March , 2022 by FROGSMILE

[Arne Vandendriessche]

Hey,

Here you can follow the post on the other forum.

https://mb.nawcc.org/threads/pocket-watch-plate.186617/#post-1525332

 

Greetings Arne

[TEW]

Apart from the name and parts of the number I can't see anything in the photo. The maker's mark has been IDd as Edouard Freiburghaus but the 0.600 must read 0.800 for a European silver standard.

The JG in the lozenge could be JC which could also be a maker's mark.

http://www.mikrolisk.de/show.php/280/letter_J

Not sure why there'd be two makers unless the watch and case are seperate manufacturers.

The Mikrolisk site for Freiburghaus says : Kleinuhren, Uhrenteile which Google translates as 'small watch parts'.

For JC (also Swiss) it says: Uhrwerke, Gehäuse which seems to be along the lines of 'movements housing'.

Anyone who speaks German better than Google care to comment on the phrases?

Does it sound like a movement maker and a case maker have marked it?

TEW

[squirrel]

Not unusual for pocket watches to have the movement made by one company and the case by another. I have a WW2 issue Air raid Warden's watch, the movement is Swiss and the case American.