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Remembered Today:

Bare Ars*d Argyll?


19141918noble
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The photograph (and a zoomed in version)is one taken by a French photographer of Highlanders 'bathing' in a stream in the SW suburbs of Epernay, Champagne on 17th July 1918 looked on by locals and Italian troops.

These troops were from 51st (Highland) Division, part of XII Corps, which together with 62nd (West Yorkshire) Division and ANZAC Corps troops relieved the exhausted Italians on 19th July and were immediately employed the following morning as part of the right hand pincer of Foch's counter-attack in Champagne that had begun two days earlier.

To my untrained eye, the cap badge in the bystanders' ToS/bonnets is the Argyll 'plate' (or a Gordon's?).

I would welcome any thoughts on whether this is correct. If it is it would make these troops members of 7/Argylls, the only battalion of that regiment then serving with 51st (154 brigade).

Many thanks,

Chris

 

 

Capture.PNG

Capture1.PNG

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4 hours ago, 19141918noble said:

The photograph (and a zoomed in version)is one taken by a French photographer of Highlanders 'bathing' in a stream in the SW suburbs of Epernay, Champagne on 17th July 1918 looked on by locals and Italian troops.

These troops were from 51st (Highland) Division, part of XII Corps, which together with 62nd (West Yorkshire) Division and ANZAC Corps troops relieved the exhausted Italians on 19th July and were immediately employed the following morning as part of the right hand pincer of Foch's counter-attack in Champagne that had begun two days earlier.

To my untrained eye, the cap badge in the bystanders' ToS/bonnets is the Argyll 'plate' (or a Gordon's?).

I would welcome any thoughts on whether this is correct. If it is it would make these troops members of 7/Argylls, the only battalion of that regiment then serving with 51st (154 brigade).

Many thanks,

Chris

 

 

Definitely Gordon’s I think.  The central lowermost soldier gives a good clear view of the badge even though the close-up is quite blurred.  I can also see what appears to be a belled hose tab on one of the seated soldiers that was a feature of regimental dress IIRC.

35683382-4802-4A7B-809D-82623CA21958.jpeg

Edited by FROGSMILE
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Definitely Gordons, I agree.  Where are they? Salonika, perhaps?

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15 minutes ago, gordon92 said:

Definitely Gordons, I agree.  Where are they? Salonika, perhaps?

Champagne according to the original post? 

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5 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said:

Champagne according to the original post? 

Yes, it did say that in the OP.  The bystanders don't look French.  Portuguese maybe?

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11 minutes ago, gordon92 said:

Yes, it did say that in the OP.  The bystanders don't look French.  Portuguese maybe?

Italians - according to the original post.

And FWIW I agree the badges shown on the detailed pic are Gordons.

Chris

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1 hour ago, 4thGordons said:

Italians - according to the original post.

And FWIW I agree the badges shown on the detailed pic are Gordons.

Chris

Yes they’re definitely Italians, the kepi (cappello) they wore was very distinctive and a similar shape is still worn by Alpini troops today. 

7A16137E-77DB-47C4-9507-8D5F92F246A7.jpeg

96691BB7-DE9C-41C7-9DF5-C450D948B140.jpeg

Edited by FROGSMILE
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Hello,

I am interested to see the mix of 51 HD men and Italians. I have an identity item made from an Italian coin, named to, but not numbered, to a soldier in the 5th Seaforth Highlanders named Campbell. Perhaps this interaction led to the source of the coin?

Owain.

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Thanks all for your helpful input. This would make them either 4th or 7/Gordons.

Definitely taken in Epernay; the orginal caption:   Epernay, Marne, Italian and Scottish troops at rest and taking their bath. 17/07/1918

The article names the river as the Cubry which flows through Pierry, SW of Epernay and now a suburb of the town.

The troops are probably 7/Gordons as on 17 July they were in the vicinity of Pierry where their Brigade HQ was located and 4/Gordons were in Chouilly, SE of Epernay.

Google image below of bridge over river Cubry in Pierry may be the same location as the 1918 photo.

The civilians must be French. Italians part of II Army Corps, which had held the line SW of Reims for about 6 weeks before being relieved by 51st and 62nd Divisions, XXII Corps, which took part in the 2nd Battle of the Marne.

Owain, 1st 5/Seaforth Highlanders fought in this battle as part of 152 Brigade, 51st (Highland) Division, so very likely that your item  came about due to the interaction of the Scottish and Italian troops during this time. 

The Gordons mixed well with the French troops in the Montagne de Reims in July 1918 also:

Thanks all again, Chris

IWE0D4~1.JPG

Modern day of bridge over R. Cubry.PNG

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