Francis Henry Jones 2 Suffolk 19055 kia identifying his residence (Yorkshire)?

[wulsten]

 

Looking to attempt to gain evidence that Private 19055 Francis Henry Jones 2nd Suffoks is the man listed on the leiston cum sizewell memorial, only 3 x cwgc entries for  the name Francis Henry Jones, any advice help appreciated

However see effects register and soldiers will fetails

http://www.roll-of-honour.com/Suffolk/Leiston.html#:~:text=The memorial 116 names from,Chronicle %26 Mercury 10th October 1919.

Believed to be Private 19055, 2nd Battalion, Suffolk Regiment. Died 30/09/1915. Age 30. Buried at the New Irish Farm Cemetery

 

Edited 24 February , 2022 by wulsten

[BillyH]

There is only an 'F. Jones' on the memorial outside the church?

BillyH.

[HERITAGE PLUS]

The site at the link below gives the name as Francis Leonard Clarence Jones.

https://www.longshopmuseum.co.uk/leiston-1919-after-the-war/

Dave

[PRC]

I can’t prove it but I can give you a plausible alternative candidate after looking at all the F. Jones with a connection to Leiston on the pre-war censuses.

On the 1911 Census of England & Wales there is a 16 year old Francis Leonard Clarence Jones, an Apprentice Upholsterer, born London S.W., who was recorded living at 19 Valley Terrace, Leiston, Suffolks. This was the household of his parents, Francis Parry Jones, (43, born Machynlleth?, Monmouthshire?) and Annie McClellan Parry Jones, (33, born London W). Annie is a step-mother to Francis, as she and Francis senior have been married only 11 years and has produced an additional two children.

More importantly in this context is the occupation of Francis senior. He was a Colour Sergeant Instructor with the Territorial Force – so either a Regular Army man on secondment, or an Army long service pensioner now on the books of the Territorial Force.

Either way it would be hard for a son coming from such a background not to volunteer.

I’m not turning up a Medal Index card, although he must have served in the ranks as he received the Military Medal.

Nor could I readily find him in the London Gazette for his commissioning. But Soldiers Died in the Great War has 2nd Lieutenant Francis Leonard Clarence Jones, 2nd Battalion, Royal Welsh Fusiliers, recorded as killed in action on the 1st September 1918.

The additional information on the Commonwealth War Graves Commission website is that he was 24 years old when he died, won the Military Cross as well as the Military Medal, and was the son of Capt. F. P. Jones, D.C.M., and Haddie Jones, of Bridgecroft Villa, Widdington, Newport, Essex. Native of London. His brother E C V Jones also fell.
https://www.cwgc.org/find-records/find-war-dead/casualty-details/4037227/f-l-c-jones/

Cheers,
Peter

[wulsten]

Thanks all, replies give an explanation to the roll of honour webpage which list F H Jones with no direct photo of memorial

http://www.roll-of-honour.com/Suffolk/Leiston.html#:~:text=The memorial 116 names from,Chronicle %26 Mercury 10th October 1919.

Edited 24 February , 2022 by wulsten

[George Rayner]

I wonder why the originator of the roll of honour settled upon this particular Jones?

George

[George Rayner]

If it is 19055 here is his Effects from Fold3 with thanks to them

I wonder who Miss Ethel Garner was?

George

[wulsten]

George, thanks for reply, also note sole leg Ethel Garner, she is sole beneficiary in his soldiers will, will add her address details when i get home, she was aged 19-20 when he was kia

[corisande]

It is a bit tortuous, but it does show he is not your man

But he served and won MM as on Gren. Gds Roll as Francis Leonard Jones

then was commissioned on 29 Aug 1917 as Francis Leonard Clarence Jones - LG click

R.W. Fus.—Corpl. Francis Leonard Clarence Jones,
from G. Gd

Edited 24 February , 2022 by corisande

[wulsten]

Ethel Garner, 32 Harrington street west road Loftus Yorkshire

Sole leg, on effects and soldiers will

He enlisted in Preston, he must have resided in Yorkshire ?

Cannot find him though

Edited 24 February , 2022 by wulsten

[corisande]

Ethel Garner, 32 Harrington street west road Loftus Yorkshire

You can get her whole life on this Ancestry Tree - click. It has her at that address in 1911 census.

She married in 1918

 

[wulsten]

43 minutes ago, corisande said:

Ethel Garner, 32 Harrington street west road Loftus Yorkshire

You can get her whole life on this Ancestry Tree - click. It has her at that address in 1911 census.

She married in 1918

 

Please tell me more, any mention of Francis Henry

[corisande]

 Private Francis Henry Jones, 19055, 2nd Battalion, Suffolk Regiment. Died 30/09/1915. Age 30.

He is quite mysterious. There are so many clues that we should be able to get him. One has no idea of course what is fact and what fiction in his record

1. Name Francis Henry Jones

2. Died 30 Sep 1915 in France

3. Born circa 1885 from CWGC age of 30. No family on CWGC

4. SDGW gives born Bath, Somerset

5. SDGW gives previous service as # 20053 in Corps of Hussars

6. He has a tie to Ethel Garner, 32 Harrington Street , West Road Loftus, Yorkshire as sole beneficiary of his will. She was living there in 1911 census as well

I have been up and down the options, but cannot make any progress

[corisande]

4 minutes ago, wulsten said:

Please tell me more, any mention of Francis Henry

No, afraid not - and I don't think I would have expected to see anything. I doubt that anyone doing genealogy on her today would know about Jones

She had been living in Loftus in both 1901 and 1911 censuses

[George Rayner]

I have to concur with Corisande-it's got to chase tails time so I'll turn off this for a while and come back later with a plan!

It's the link to Leiston that gets me...

George

[BillyH]

The 'Believed to be' is probably just a bad guess. I have attached photos of the names on the memorial and there is only an 'F. Jones' shown.

Additional info will be added in a following e-mail.

BillyH.

Edited 24 February , 2022 by BillyH

[BillyH]

Inside the church there is an extensive Roll of Honour, not just of the fallen but all of the men who served, and also giving their Regiment and Battalion. Now for the bad news/excuse, it is framed behind glass and so taking a good photo in a dark church is nigh on impossible. However, I attach it below.

I have zoomed in on it and he is definitely not there.

BillyH.

[corisande]

2 minutes ago, BillyH said:

The 'Believed to be' is probably just a bad guess. I have attached photos of the names on the memorial and there is only an 'F. Jones' shown.

Thank you, that seems to be the answer, it is going to be difficult Looks as if we can rule out 19055 FH Jones

[PRC]

13 hours ago, wulsten said:

Looking to attempt to gain evidence that Private 19055 Francis Henry Jones 2nd Suffoks

Apologies but I'm not quite sure which angle you are pursuing and that will determine which lines of enquiry to follow.

Are you interested in who 19055 Francis Henry Jones was?

Or who the F. Jones on the Leiston cum Sizewell memorial was?

They are almost certainly not the same person, and whoever did the research for the Roll of Honour webpage in 2013 obviously made a guess. There is nothing there to state why they thought it was 19055 Francis Henry Jones, but I can only assume it was the Suffolk Regiment connection.

If you're after 19055 Francis Henry Jones then the name on the Leiston memorial is a red herring.

And if you're after the identification of the F. Jones from the Leiston memorial then there is a better candidate in the Royal Welsh Fusiliers officer.

Cheers,
Peter

[wulsten]

32 minutes ago, PRC said:

Apologies but I'm not quite sure which angle you are pursuing and that will determine which lines of enquiry to follow.

Are you interested in who 19055 Francis Henry Jones was?

Or who the F. Jones on the Leiston cum Sizewell memorial was?

They are almost certainly not the same person, and whoever did the research for the Roll of Honour webpage in 2013 obviously made a guess. There is nothing there to state why they thought it was 19055 Francis Henry Jones, but I can only assume it was the Suffolk Regiment connection.

If you're after 19055 Francis Henry Jones then the name on the Leiston memorial is a red herring.

And if you're after the identification of the F. Jones from the Leiston memorial then there is a better candidate in the Royal Welsh Fusiliers officer.

Cheers,
Peter

I'm interested in 19055 Francis Henry Jones, trying to find a location, residence or census anything really, only clue being the relationship to Ethel Garner and Loftus Yorkshire in his will and effects entry, other than that on previous replies he is a mystery.

I believe Also several trees on ancestry have the wrong F H Jones entered on them, he has stumped me

[corisande]

So to re-cap the chap in my post above is the one you are looking for, and we can forget about the man on Suffolk Memorial

Private Francis Henry Jones, 19055, 2nd Battalion, Suffolk Regiment. Died 30/09/1915. Age 30.

He is quite mysterious. There are so many clues that we should be able to get him. One has no idea of course what is fact and what fiction in his record

1. Name Francis Henry Jones

2. Died 30 Sep 1915 in France

3. Born circa 1885 from CWGC age of 30. No family on CWGC

4. SDGW gives born Bath, Somerset

5. SDGW gives previous service as # 20053 in Corps of Hussars

6. He has a tie to Ethel Garner, 32 Harrington Street , West Road Loftus, Yorkshire as sole beneficiary of his will. She was living there in 1911 census as well

I have been up and down the options, but cannot make any progress

Can I ask why you are researching him s that might give us another clue

[wulsten]

I have a medal to him hoping to gain information about his background before a visit this year, killed at Sanctuary wood

[Allan1892]

2 hours ago, corisande said:

4. SDGW gives born Bath, Somerset

No civil birth registrations for a Francis Henry / Francis H Jones for Somerset in 1885 + / - 5 years.

EDIT: The only Francis Henry / Francis H Jones whose birth was registered in 1885 was in Gloucestershire. He was born in Cheltenham, the 1911 Census shows that he was an Aux. Postman. There is a service record for him showing that he joined up 7 April 1915, occupation Postman, he was placed into the Royal Engineers Postal Section. He survived the war so he can be discounted.

Edited 24 February , 2022 by Allan1892

[wulsten]

15 minutes ago, Allan1892 said:

No civil birth registrations for a Francis Henry / Francis H Jones for Somerset in 1885 + / - 5 years.

EDIT: The only Francis Henry / Francis H Jones whose birth was registered in 1885 was in Gloucestershire. He was born in Cheltenham, the 1911 Census shows that he was an Aux. Postman. There is a service record for him showing that he joined up 7 April 1915, occupation Postman, he was placed into the Royal Engineers Postal Section. He survived the war so he can be discounted.

Cheers Allan, I must say dates etc don't seem to tie him down to his age or birth sdgw given as Bath, there is something astray but what ?, no pension card either

[George Rayner]

21 hours ago, corisande said:

SDGW gives previous service as # 20053 in Corps of Hussars

Can anybody find this record? either in Ancestry or FMP? I'm sure I've seen it but this morning...

George