Skipman Posted 23 February , 2022 Share Posted 23 February , 2022 Have researchers found the 1921 useful, and if so, in what ways? When will the Scottish 1921 Census be available? Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alisonmallen62 Posted 23 February , 2022 Share Posted 23 February , 2022 I am trying to find anything I can on 121966 Sapper T Lloyd who I was told had been a brave soldier during the Great War - a tunneller. A mystery man whose existence as posted previously was wiped out more or less by a wife who hated him. No one knew his birthplace but 1921 census came up trumps. He even recorded his own child/children as that of my great gran’s former husband who died 4 years before one of the children was born! No info from war perspective but the actual mine and company he worked for was there. Also proved they hadn’t moved to the ‘family home’ we all know till later than thought. Other family recorded as being back in the jobs they left to fight in the war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skipman Posted 24 February , 2022 Author Share Posted 24 February , 2022 Thanks Alison. Interesting. I'm sure it could be useful in other ways, if anyone has other examples. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coldstreamer Posted 24 February , 2022 Share Posted 24 February , 2022 It’s useful for cross referencing info. Especially for those men for adjusted their date of birth to enlist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dai Bach y Sowldiwr Posted 24 February , 2022 Share Posted 24 February , 2022 I visited the National Library of Wales, Aberystwyth last week as I was in rhe town. The situation there is that you can search and view images for free. You can't however download images, but you can take pictures of the screen for free, or you can print out the images ( black & white I think) at 30p a go. With regard to the census itself, somebody... (FMP, The National Archive or whoever) has cocked up the indexing again. They've stuck my home parish on to an adjoining parish, and my home county of Anglesey on to the next one, Caernarfonshire. It makes searching tricky but not impossible once you understand the vagaries that are built in. I don't know if these idiosyncracies are repeated across tge country especially in areas that are in registration districts that straddle county boundaries. I'm quite lucky in that my areas of interest are well covered by electoral registers being free on Ancestry so I already knew where my people lived. I certainly wouldn't consider a basic FMP subscription, let alone fork out £3.50 per image to access the census. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skipman Posted 24 February , 2022 Author Share Posted 24 February , 2022 4 hours ago, Coldstreamer said: It’s useful for cross referencing info. Especially for those men for adjusted their date of birth to enlist Good point. Thanks Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skipman Posted 24 February , 2022 Author Share Posted 24 February , 2022 2 hours ago, Dai Bach y Sowldiwr said: I'm quite lucky in that my areas of interest are well covered by electoral registers being free on Ancestry so I already knew where my people lived. I certainly wouldn't consider a basic FMP subscription, let alone fork out £3.50 per image to access the census. That is a bit of a cheek isn't it. I wonder how many credits Scotlands People will charge. It's a great site but they charge like bulls. I've spent a fortune on that site. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Black Posted 24 February , 2022 Share Posted 24 February , 2022 (edited) 31 minutes ago, Skipman said: That is a bit of a cheek isn't it. I wonder how many credits Scotlands People will charge. It's a great site but they charge like bulls. I've spent a fortune on that site. Mike As have I mike, I'd hate to add it up. I don't know how much i will access the Scottish 1921 census when available later this year. There are the places Scotlandspeople can be accessed all day for a flat fee from, like in Edinburgh, sadly none are close to me. You'd think Dundee and Aberdeen would be likely locations, not Alloa and Kilmarnock, considering how close they are to access in Edinburgh and Glasgow. Burns Monument Centre in Kilmarnock Clackmannanshire Family History Centre in Alloa Heritage Hub in Hawick Highland Archives Service Family History Room in Inverness Family History at the Mitchell Library in Glasgow Derek. Edited 24 February , 2022 by Derek Black Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keithmroberts Posted 24 February , 2022 Share Posted 24 February , 2022 (edited) I led a project a few years ago based on addresses, often with little or erratic military information for just over 1000 men, most of whom were survivors. The list was not dedicated until 1926, by which time families had moved house etc. Some were never identified to a reasonable level of confidence. I'm currently working on a recently rescued Roll of Service, again listing men who survived the war, with surnames, often just one initial, and other information limited to regiment, or even service. I'm 3/4 of the way forward, after identifying candidates mostly from the 1911 census, and then working back through possible military or naval records. I'm hoping that searches by locality, will bring up some candidates with addresses local to St Boniface Church, Portsea, but Lane W, Labour Corps, Taylor L , Hants, and Smith J RGA among others are proving challenging. I'm hoping that a few days at Kew, with my caravan at the Crystal Palace campsite, will help me make progress with the likes of these. Edited 24 February , 2022 by keithmroberts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matlock1418 Posted 24 February , 2022 Share Posted 24 February , 2022 (edited) Was looking for further details on a man who was known to be in the RAF in 1923 [from definitive photographic evidence] - the 1921 Census was hoped to be a good source but I have been somewhat frustrated. Found an entry for a man who looked promising = But ... the form was incompetently filled in using only an initial and surname. ****! And unfortunately no service number [a big hope!] - other details are closish but not enough to prove the man sought. His entry was nearly #700 and was on page 35 and yet now unsure how to find out the exact establishment that was making the return! [unlike individual civilian household where you get such info on the second/back page of an image purchased] A mixed experience in this military scenario. For other of his ex-service & civilian family members [where I knew more info] it was great to move the story on a bit from the 1911 Census etc.. However, for the few records I sought [and images somewhat cautiously purchased] the Find My Past indexing transcriptions were proved to be terrible with multiple errors of name(s) and/or address(es) [just as well I knew the correct info to aid my searching!] An expensive and very mixed experience overall. :-/ M Edited 24 February , 2022 by Matlock1418 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rolt968 Posted 24 February , 2022 Share Posted 24 February , 2022 (edited) I haven't really started using the 1921 Census since the Scottish Census isn't available yet. It would be useful to me for a number of things. Tracking down widows and children Finding families who moved into a parish after the 1911 Census/ during WW1. (Hence their son/ brother/ father appears ona war memorial.) Men who continued to serve postwar should be in it. (I am also trying to track down a certain multiple enlister and would be bigamist whom I have been researching for some time. I have not so far found him which is odd as he should have been in prison!) RM Edited 24 February , 2022 by rolt968 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anneca Posted 24 February , 2022 Share Posted 24 February , 2022 Unfortunately there was no 1921 Census covering Northern Ireland as there wasn't one that year. A bit frustrating when researching people who lived here at that time. Anne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matlock1418 Posted 24 February , 2022 Share Posted 24 February , 2022 3 hours ago, Skipman said: I wonder how many credits Scotlands People will charge. It's a great site but they charge like bulls. Based on previous Censuses/current rates @ £0.25 per credit at SP, perhaps ... = Census returns and church registers of births and baptisms, marriages, deaths and burials and other events cost 6 credits (£1.50) = Statutory registers of births (older than 100 years), marriages (older than 75 years) and deaths (older than 50 years) cost 6 credits (£1.50) Note: The General Register Office in E & W charge a minimum of £7.00 for a B or D Certificate PDF! GRO make SP look like good value! But certainly it does all add up!! And of course we do have to still 'watch this space' for the 1921 Census. M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skipman Posted 24 February , 2022 Author Share Posted 24 February , 2022 Excellent, thank you all. One thing I thought of was (especially with Scotlands People) it might be possible to work out roughly when a man was on leave by the birth of children (although I see a difficulty there ) I know of one soldier who died leaving eight children. The census should give names and as said might be possible to work out rough dates of leave. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rolt968 Posted 24 February , 2022 Share Posted 24 February , 2022 4 hours ago, Matlock1418 said: But certainly it does all add up!! It certainly does! When I complete the present "write up" I will have written up about 220 men and there are another hundred or so in the pipeline. Not that I will necessarily want to look up something in the 1921 Census for all of them. RM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skipman Posted 24 February , 2022 Author Share Posted 24 February , 2022 5 minutes ago, rolt968 said: It certainly does! When I complete the present "write up" I will have written up about 220 men and there are another hundred or so in the pipeline. Not that I will necessarily want to look up something in the 1921 Census for all of them. RM I dread to think how much I've spent. at least a thousand pounds. I've actually just emailed them and asked them, doubt they will tell me. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keithmroberts Posted 24 February , 2022 Share Posted 24 February , 2022 26 minutes ago, Skipman said: I dread to think how much I've spent. at least a thousand pounds. I've actually just emailed them and asked them, doubt they will tell me. That would beyond my means. Taking my caravan to London for a few days will be pain enough. I'm not sure how much I will get through in four days at Kew, but have laptop, will travel, has to be much less expensive than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skipman Posted 24 February , 2022 Author Share Posted 24 February , 2022 10 minutes ago, keithmroberts said: That would beyond my means. Taking my caravan to London for a few days will be pain enough. I'm not sure how much I will get through in four days at Kew, but have laptop, will travel, has to be much less expensive than that. That's over 14 years. it may not be quite as much but it cannot be far off. I could go to Edinburgh and do it for free but it's so convenient. The problem with Scotlands People is you really have to do your homework but sometimes with a common name you just have to guess a few times and it all adds up. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith_history_buff Posted 26 March , 2022 Share Posted 26 March , 2022 3902220 Warrant Officer 1st Class H Fenner of the South Wales Borderers was awarded his LSGC, as announced in Army Order 126 of 1924. In order to have accumulated eighteen years of undetected crime, he was clearly a WW1 veteran. He did not serve in the South Wales Borderers in WW1, that I can tell. Eight MICs relate to men named Harry Fenner. By doing a search of the census WHERE SURNAME = FENNER and OCCUPATION CODE = 813 it is possible to get a list of all men on the census whose occupation is a soldier and surname is Fenner. Harry Fenner, born Guildford is found to be in Ranikhet, so I am pretty chuffed with this ability to search on soldiers with uncommon surnames. Harry Fenner, born about July 1888 in Guildford. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matlock1418 Posted 26 March , 2022 Share Posted 26 March , 2022 27 minutes ago, Keith_history_buff said: OCCUPATION CODE = 813 Interesting - where/how did you get this code? Is there a list? M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith_history_buff Posted 26 March , 2022 Share Posted 26 March , 2022 This was derived from the transcription of a soldier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matlock1418 Posted 26 March , 2022 Share Posted 26 March , 2022 (edited) It seems FMP give you the option in an Advanced Search to enter an occupation code, and do list them as numbers under Browse Occupation Code, but I haven't [yet?] found a listing. Would certainly be helpful to find a list of occupational codes. At least when you browse by Branch of Service you get offered Air Force, Army, Marines, Navy Certainly handy to have 813 as Soldier = must remember that for the future. Thanks for posting it Keith. M Edited 26 March , 2022 by Matlock1418 typo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skipman Posted 26 March , 2022 Author Share Posted 26 March , 2022 Not sure if it's that useful but try Registration District 'Army' Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matlock1418 Posted 26 March , 2022 Share Posted 26 March , 2022 (edited) 40 minutes ago, Skipman said: Not sure if it's that useful but try Registration District 'Army' I've found Branch of Service better for "Army" and "Air Force" Not that is the fault of FMP but have been very frustrated by those [two] military returns I have looked at to date - no service numbers :-( M Edited 26 March , 2022 by Matlock1418 addit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaureenE Posted 26 March , 2022 Share Posted 26 March , 2022 (edited) For non military occupations, occupational codes are listed in A Dictionary of Occupational Terms Based on the Classification of Occupations used in the Census of Population, 1921 https://archive.org/details/DictionaryOfOccupationalTerms/mode/2up The Preface says No occupations of persons employed in in public administration and defence or professional occupations (Census Code Nos 800-879 inclusive) have been included Maureen Edit: Findmypast page https://www.findmypast.com.au/articles/world-records/1921-census---occupation-codes 810 Persons employed in public administration & defence (excluding professional men & typists) Naval & Marine - Commissioned Officers (effective) 811 Persons employed in public administration & defence (excluding professional men & typists) Naval & Marine - other ratings 812 Persons employed in public administration & defence (excluding professional men & typists) Army - Commissioned Officers (effective) 813 Persons employed in public administration & defence (excluding professional men & typists) Army - other ranks 814 Persons employed in public administration & defence (excluding professional men & typists) Royal Air Force - Commissioned Officers (effective) 815 Persons employed in public administration & defence (excluding professional men & typists) Royal Air Force - other ranks Edited 26 March , 2022 by MaureenE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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