Question Regarding British SMLE

[Mickster]

4 hours ago, 593jones said:

I wish I could remember the name and unit of the contributor but it's a great many years since I read that book.  The story has stayed in my memory, though, as an example of how the military works.

Im the same 593 jones books and photos. I spend my life searching for items. I then tend to think that Ive only imagined something and its not real.

Mickster

[Mickster]

2 hours ago, MikeyH said:

Having very recently read the book, which by the way is an excellent account of the battle.  Can confirm that the contributor of the rifle/bayonet story was Lieutenant Colonel G.A.Brett,1/23 London Regiment.

Mike.

Well done Mike, have you got the book title please. I reckon that would be a useful read

Mickster

[MikeyH]

35 minutes ago, Mickster said:

Well done Mike, have you got the book title please. I reckon that would be a useful read

Mickster

Mickster,

The book is 'The Battle of Loos' by Phillip Warner, published by William Kimber in 1976.  He made contact in 1975 via a letter in the Daily Telegraph with a large number of veterans of the battle. The book is based around their recollections, recommended.

Mike.

 

 

Edited 24 February , 2022 by MikeyH

[Mickster]

2 hours ago, MikeyH said:

Mickster,

The book is 'The Battle of Loos' by Phillip Warner, published by William Kimber in 1976.  He made contact in 1975 via a letter in the Daily Telegraph with a large number of veterans of the battle. The book is based around their recollections, recommended.

Mike.

 

 

Cheers Mike. Book ordered. I look forward to it. £3.19 including postage

Mickster

[4thGordons]

22 minutes ago, Mickster said:

Cheers Mike. Book ordered. I look forward to it. £3.19 including postage

Mickster

It's good -- as is Niall Cherry's more recent (and different in approach) "Most Unfavourable Ground"

Chris

[Mickster]

1 minute ago, 4thGordons said:

It's good -- as is Niall Cherry's more recent (and different in approach) "Most Unfavourable Ground"

Chris

Cheers Chris, I will chase it up pronto

Mickster

[pmboxing]

Thank you all for the information! I am starting a WW1 rifle collection - just acquired an all-matching Gewehr 98. Wanting to add an SHTLE Mk III or Mk III* as one of my ancestors fought at Somme, specifically at the Butte de Warlencourt, and died in late 1916 (1/7 London). If anyone has good connections on acquiring such a rifle, I'd appreciate any heading.

Edited 25 February , 2022 by pmboxing

[Mickster]

14 hours ago, pmboxing said:

Thank you all for the information! I am starting a WW1 rifle collection - just acquired an all-matching Gewehr 98. Wanting to add an SHTLE Mk III or Mk III* as one of my ancestors fought at Somme, specifically at the Butte de Warlencourt, and died in late 1916 (1/7 London). If anyone has good connections on acquiring such a rifle, I'd appreciate any heading.

I sent you a message, pmboxing

Edited 25 February , 2022 by Mickster

[t.ryan]

battle of loos,

Thanks for the great photo's.

You have done a really nice job of preserving the S.M.L.E. farm find, found near ARRAS. Should be good for another 100 years now.

Can anyone help with what the FU FR letters stamped on the front of the action represent, don't think I have seen that before.

Cheers,

TR

[JMB1943]

Mr. Ryan,

You are not the only one baffled by those markings, and the Maserati-type “trident” above the FU.

My best guess currently is,

FU FR = fusil francais = French rifle

but that does not make sense in the context, and I would not put money on it!

Regards,

JMB

 

[battle of loos]

good mornig,

thank's for your answer.

"crown" - EU

17 FR

it's for the French neutralization to the new European standards

"crown" EU : new European standards

17 FR : year & country (2017 France)

michel

Edited 26 February , 2022 by battle of loos

[t.ryan]

Hi,

Thanks for the information.

Was the French stamp applied in 2017 or 1917 as it looks to have been there a good while.

Cheers TR

[battle of loos]

good morning,

here is the certificate of neutralization at the end of the neutralization that I obtained in order to be able to keep it :

michel

[t.ryan]

Michel,

Thank you for showing the certificate, makes it much easier to understand now. It appears that the barrel may have been removed and refitted when the rifle was deactivated. 

Cheers,

TR

[collectorsguide]

On the first day of the Somme the rifles used were largely volley sight MKIIIs ,however MK III* were also used. A few MK III*s were made in late 1915 and initially rejected ,then later accepted. CCLEs were also used.

                  ACIs in early  1916 give instructions to send out Stands of new  MKIII* SMLES to replace the volley sight models from January ,this exchange being largely complete by the end of 1916. I have found both relic CLLE and Long Lee Enfields on the 1916 Somme battlefields. Volley sight models were not manufactured/dated after 1915.

                         I have noted CCLEs in photos of Gallipoli,Egypt , Mespot and Salonika 1917/18 as well as both types of SMLE.

                                                          Best w,

                                                                      Headmaster xx

[4thGordons]

8 hours ago, collectorsguide said:

On the first day of the Somme the rifles used were largely volley sight MKIIIs ,however MK III* were also used. A few MK III*s were made in late 1915 and initially rejected ,then later accepted. CCLEs were also used.

                  ACIs in early  1916 give instructions to send out Stands of new  MKIII* SMLES to replace the volley sight models from January ,this exchange being largely complete by the end of 1916. I have found both relic CLLE and Long Lee Enfields on the 1916 Somme battlefields. Volley sight models were not manufactured/dated after 1915.

                         I have noted CCLEs in photos of Gallipoli,Egypt , Mespot and Salonika 1917/18 as well as both types of SMLE.

                                                          Best w,

                                                                      Headmaster xx

I have not seen any photographic evidence of CLLEs after June 1916 on the Western Front - would love to see some if you have it, I've been trying to track down some for ages.

Should also probably note that the officially required difference between the MkIII and MkIII* was the omission of the cutoff rather than the volley sights.

Omission of the volley sights is listed among the simplifications that may be embodied in subsequent production (LoC 17622 2 Jan 1916). The distinction between MkIII and MkIII* is the deletion of the cutoff.

BSA produced the first MkIII* rifles and it is relatively common to find them with 1915 dates, but I believe LSA Co continued to produce MkIII rifles after 1915 (actually up to 1918) and MkIII* LSA rifles are quite scarce. Lithgow also continued to produce MkIII rifles until 1918.

Chris

Edited 27 February , 2022 by 4thGordons
punctuation!

[5thBatt]

11 hours ago, collectorsguide said:

On the first day of the Somme the rifles used were largely volley sight MKIIIs ,however MK III* were also used. A few MK III*s were made in late 1915 and initially rejected ,then later accepted. CCLEs were also used.

                  ACIs in early  1916 give instructions to send out Stands of new  MKIII* SMLES to replace the volley sight models from January ,this exchange being largely complete by the end of 1916. I have found both relic CLLE and Long Lee Enfields on the 1916 Somme battlefields. Volley sight models were not manufactured/dated after 1915.

                         I have noted CCLEs in photos of Gallipoli,Egypt , Mespot and Salonika 1917/18 as well as both types of SMLE.

                                                          Best w,

                                                                      Headmaster xx

I think it was more likely a order to replace rifles sighted for MkVI ammo with rifles sighted for MkVII ammo than MkIII for MkIII* 

Edited 28 February , 2022 by 5thBatt

[Stevie]

Here's a couple of interesting photographs of the Kings Liverpool regiment armed with CLLE rifles on the Somme. It is said that they went 'over the top' armed with such rifles. I have a well-used BSA & Co LE 1* which is dated 1902 and was converted to CLLE by BSA in 1909. It has the fully adjustable rear sight.

Cheers,

           Steve

[new3.2]

CLLE-  Question:  I keep a list of Brit abbreviations handy when visiting this forum.  I assume the LLE part is long Lee Enfield (?), what about the C? 

[Mickster]

9 minutes ago, new3.2 said:

CLLE-  Question:  I keep a list of Brit abbreviations handy when visiting this forum.  I assume the LLE part is long Lee Enfield (?), what about the C? 

Charger loader Lee Enfield or Charger Loading Lee Enfield

Mickster

 

Edited 4 March , 2022 by Mickster

[new3.2]

Thanks Mickster, I would not have guessed that.  I do have several CW Enfield's, and a couple of WW1 ones.

new3.2

[Mickster]

1 hour ago, new3.2 said:

Thanks Mickster, I would not have guessed that.  I do have several CW Enfield's, and a couple of WW1 ones.

new3.2

I love them new3.2. but then, I love them all but confine my collection to Great war only (all nations) as it could get out of control.

Mickster

[new3.2]

Out of control is good!

new3.2

[Mickster]

11 hours ago, new3.2 said:

Out of control is good!

new3.2

Rifle rehab 

Mickster

[MrEd]

This is an interesting thread, and that barn find SMLE is fascinating - if only it could talk….

From reading the thread can I assume thy soldiers at the battle of loos - or in that area june to October 1915 would be equipped with CLLE or SMLE no1 mkiii?

i had 2 relatives (the buffs and east surrey regts.) who died in and around that area (actually ypres and armentieres) in October 1915 and I have a small commemorative display - i

have been thinking about adding a SMLE but want to add something that *could* have been used by them?

am I better looking for an earlier deac SMLE No1 Mkiii with cutoff say 1915 dated (or earlier) as a general representative ww1 rifle or a more specific rifle to those battles?

Thanks

ed