arantxa Posted 18 February , 2022 Share Posted 18 February , 2022 looking for info on him before 1915 thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie962 Posted 18 February , 2022 Share Posted 18 February , 2022 What is significance of 1907? Charlie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PRC Posted 18 February , 2022 Share Posted 18 February , 2022 (edited) Harts 1908 Annual List , (“correct” to the end of 1907), shows a William Cotton French under reference 435, according to the Index. That reference covers Captains in the Indian Army. William Cotton French was then 2nd Battalion, 3rd Goorkhas having originally been Lancashire Fusiliers. He had 18 years of service. 2nd Lieutenant 29th October 1890 Lieutenant 15th June 1892 Captain 10th July 1901. https://digital.nls.uk/british-military-lists/archive/100881234 It’s difficult to make out on the MiC but I believe he is shown as Major W.C. French 2/3 Gurkha Rifles – National Archive have indexed it as 210 Gurkha Rifles. https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D2248283 Hope that helps, Peter Edit - CWGC also has him as 2nd Battalion, 3rd Gurkhas. Edited 18 February , 2022 by PRC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arantxa Posted 18 February , 2022 Author Share Posted 18 February , 2022 i have a lot of photographs newspaper cuttings i also have a pile of photos that could be him as in same album dated 1907 but i think royal engineers i can id him in the newspaper cuttings and the ones with the 3rd ghurka badge but the others 1907 is like a flaming grenade badge if its him maybe those are a relative Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie962 Posted 18 February , 2022 Share Posted 18 February , 2022 1 hour ago, arantxa said: flaming grenade Which could be Lancashire Fusiliers, his old regiment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
busterfield Posted 18 February , 2022 Share Posted 18 February , 2022 Maybe if someone has a copy. https://avsfhg.org.uk/events/view/35 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arantxa Posted 18 February , 2022 Author Share Posted 18 February , 2022 I’m sure his surname is French Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6RRF Posted 18 February , 2022 Share Posted 18 February , 2022 That photograph not only clearly shows the Fusilier badge on his collar, but his Fusilier cap sitting on the table beside him. He looks quite young. Do we know when he actually went to the Gurkhas ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arantxa Posted 18 February , 2022 Author Share Posted 18 February , 2022 Sorry are you saying it’s the same man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PRC Posted 18 February , 2022 Share Posted 18 February , 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, arantxa said: but the others 1907 is like a flaming grenade badge The 1908 Harts entry also cross references to a note about his War services. This was with the Chitral Expedition of 1895 and he was already then serving with the 2nd Battalion, 3rd Goorkhas. So if it's the right man then neither a Lancashire Fusilier or a Royal Engineer in 1907. He received the Medal and Clasp for the campaign. CWGC shows him as aged 44 when he died on the 12th March 1915 and the “Son of the Rev. Frederic and A. M. French, of Worlingworth, Framlingham, Suffolk; husband of Evelyn Mary French, of Stayer House, Eye, Suffolk.” https://www.cwgc.org/find-records/find-war-dead/casualty-details/261698/william-cotton-french/ (William is not on either the civic or church memorial at Eye). The birth of a William Cotton French, mothers’ maiden name Davis, was registered with the civil authorities in the Hoxne District in Q1 1871. On the 1871 Census of England & Wales, as William C French aged 2 months, at The Rectory, Worlingworth, Suffolk. That address fell within the Hoxne Civil Registration District. Brothers at home are:- Thomas Harvey French, K.S. Eton College….aged 11 Hugh Davis Day French……………………aged 8 Francis C French………………………………aged 2 All three were born Worlingworth. On the 1881 Census of England & Wales the 10 year old William C French, born Worlingworth, was a boarding school pupil at Little Wymondley, Hertfordshire. By the time of the 1891 Census of England & Wales the 20 year old William C. French was back living with his parents at The Rectory and recorded as a 2nd Lieutenant in the Lancashire Fusiliers. (Harts shows him as commissioned on the 29th October 1890). He was the only one of the sons in the household. He does not appear to be on the 1901 Census of England & Wales, but if he was in India after the Chitral Expedition, that is to be expected. British Army garrisons around the world were in scope for the 1911 Census of England & Wales. As William doesn’t appear to be recorded the most likely explanation is that by that time he was on the strength of the Indian Army – which again is borne out by his entry in the 1908 Harts Annual Army List. Working through his brothers from the 1871 Census:- The last entry I can find for Thomas is on the 1891 Census when he was a 31 year old married Preparatory School Master M.A and living with his in-laws at The Vicarage. Iwerne Minster, Dorset. Hugh D. French turns up on the 1881 Census as an 18 year old Pupil at a School at Little Ealing, but then disappears. On the 1911 Census the married Francis Coope French, 42 and born Worlingworth, turns up with his wife Geraldine as visitors in a household in Bournmouth. Francis is described as employed by the Indian Civil Service. There are memorials to the French family in the church at Worlingworth. A set on Flickr includes this in the general write up about the church. A more recent century has given brass plaque memorials to two men of the French family, rich patrons of this parish, who were killed in action during the First World War. Reverend Frederic French was the Rector of this church, and he lost a son and a grandson, less than a fortnight apart. Noel Lee French, the only son of the Rector's oldest son, Edward, who might one day have been heir to the French family fortunes, was killed in Egypt on the 27th of February 1915. As if this was not unbearable enough, the Reverend French's youngest son, William Cotton French, was killed near Neuve Chapelle thirteen days later, on the 12th of March. The plaques are set apart in the chancel, a large medieval consecration cross keeping one of them company. Other French memorials on the south side of the chancel include one to another son of the Rector, Hugh Davis Day French, a Conservator of Forests for the Indian Forestry Service, who died in Lucknow in 1903, and another to his brother Thomas Harvey French, who also died in India five years later. https://www.flickr.com/photos/norfolkodyssey/37378870866 Private 1115 Noel Edward Lee French was 27 years old when he died on the 10th February 1915 serving with the 2nd County of London Yeomanry (Westminster Dragoons) he was the son of the late Sir Edward Lee French, K.C.V.O., and of Lady French. https://www.cwgc.org/find-records/find-war-dead/casualty-details/112627/noel-edward-lee-french/ Given the locality @George Rayner may have had cause to research him. Cheers, Peter Edited 18 February , 2022 by PRC Typo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arantxa Posted 18 February , 2022 Author Share Posted 18 February , 2022 So with your info maybe this is the brother but maybe he’s too young ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arantxa Posted 18 February , 2022 Author Share Posted 18 February , 2022 it has lots of photos and paintings of the church at Worlingworth and some super pics in India Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 18 February , 2022 Share Posted 18 February , 2022 (edited) 5 minutes ago, arantxa said: So with your info maybe this is the brother but maybe he’s too young ? He’s dressed as a typical mounted soldier (rather than officer) so that aspect would fit with the brother (Edward) in the Westminster Dragoons (Yeomanry). It might well be in Egypt. Edited 18 February , 2022 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arantxa Posted 18 February , 2022 Author Share Posted 18 February , 2022 I’m not sure where this chap comes into the equation or this chap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 18 February , 2022 Share Posted 18 February , 2022 (edited) I can’t make out the cap badge (possibly RMC Sandhurst?) or any rank insignia in the first photo, but it’s an officer’s service dress. The absence of a Sam Browne belt in favour of a plain leather waist belt suggests that he is in officer cadet under training. The second photo shows an officer of Rifle Volunteers in a grey coloured uniform. As the date is annotated as 1900, then we know it will be a Volunteer Battalion (of one of the regular line infantry regiments) that has retained a uniform style associated with its discrete origins, rather than of its then parent regiment. I think that the latter is the Suffolk Regiment and I know that one of their VB (the 2nd) did indeed wear grey. It became a TF battalion in 1908 and fought throughout WW1. See: Edited 18 February , 2022 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie962 Posted 18 February , 2022 Share Posted 18 February , 2022 (edited) Major Woolnough commanded the Eye Rifle Volunteers, a company of the Norfolk's, I think. Edit see later on- my thinking and geography wrong, SB Suffolk's. Edited 21 February , 2022 by charlie962 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PRC Posted 18 February , 2022 Share Posted 18 February , 2022 4 minutes ago, arantxa said: So with your info maybe this is the brother but maybe he’s too young ? Would seem potentially a good match for Private Noel Edward Lee French, who was Major William Cotton French's nephew. I see Major W C French is stated to have seen active service in the South African War - strange that doesn't get a mention in Hart's. Hope I haven't given you a red herring. The man in the picture from (I suspect) The Sphere has two campaign medals, whereas the picture dated 1897 has just the one - which is presumably the one for the 1895 Chitral Expedition. The sash and medal is interesting - I don't know if anything can be interpreted from that, but would seem a big co-incidence if they are not the same man. Certainly his helmet seems to support him being with the 3rd Gurkha Rifles by 1897. So again likely to be the same man (or a very similar looking British Officer serving with the same unit !) Cheers, Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arantxa Posted 18 February , 2022 Author Share Posted 18 February , 2022 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arantxa Posted 18 February , 2022 Author Share Posted 18 February , 2022 Thats the connection cosd the second album has a big chunk about Eye Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie962 Posted 18 February , 2022 Share Posted 18 February , 2022 (edited) Major Woolnough was originally clerk to French and Lawton, solicitors of Eye. Obit here. "The British Newspaper Archive | findmypast.co.uk" https://search.findmypast.co.uk/bna/viewarticle?id=bl%2f0001727%2f19090412%2f102&stringtohighlight=major woolnough Edited 18 February , 2022 by charlie962 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arantxa Posted 18 February , 2022 Author Share Posted 18 February , 2022 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 18 February , 2022 Share Posted 18 February , 2022 Unfortunately I cannot find any decent imagery relating to the Norfolk Rifle Volunteers unit concerned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PRC Posted 18 February , 2022 Share Posted 18 February , 2022 51 minutes ago, charlie962 said: Major Woolnough commanded the Eye Rifle Volunteers, a company of the Norfolk's, I think. Suffolks I believe - certainly the company of the Territorial Force based at the Eye Drill Hall post 1908 was Suffolk Regiment. It would be the most natural fit as that is the county the town is in. Cheers, Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie962 Posted 18 February , 2022 Share Posted 18 February , 2022 1 minute ago, PRC said: Suffolks I believe - I'm sure you are right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PRC Posted 18 February , 2022 Share Posted 18 February , 2022 Some interesting pre-war snippets on the British Newspaper Archive, (via FindMyPast) - the full articles will be available via subscription. Image courtesy FindMyPast 1901 - Gives up position of Quartermaster with the 3rd Gurkha Rifles.1907 - birth of a child at Landsdowne Cantonment to the wife of Capt. W.C. French, "213" Gurkha Rifles - as what he was doing in 1907 is where this thread started Lots of other mentions through the 1900's of him attending Gurkha Brigade dinners. Cheers, Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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