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Remembered Today:

10285 GEORGE HYDE Lancashire Fusiliers


ralphjd
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Any Pal out there who can shed any light on the NOK for the above named -  SDGW = b L/pool. e Todmorden d Rochdale. Effects Register has his death as Sept 1914 but this is obviously wrong , Rochdale Observer has reports dated April 1915 on his death and the result of the PM - accidental death - poisoned. Buried Rochdale Cemetery aged approx 50 years of age. Any help would be gratefully received. Thanks Ralph.

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22 minutes ago, ralphjd said:

Effects Register has his death as Sept 1914 but this is obviously wrong

Can we assume the balance of his pay went unclaimed?

(Sorry - don't have access to Ancestry so can't check).

Cheers,
Peter

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57 minutes ago, PRC said:

Can we assume the balance of his pay went unclaimed?

(Sorry - don't have access to Ancestry so can't check).

Cheers,
Peter

Correct young man. Still cannot find any relatives.

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6 minutes ago, jonbem said:

No N.O.K. mentioned for claim

So presumably the balance was sat with the Regimental Paymaster (R.P. in the column at the end). Which would tend to suggest that there was no living next of kin \ he was estranged from them \ the relationship in terms of family ties was a bit distant and there was no communication so they were unaware he was dead.

He may turn up on one of the outstanding soldiers estates lists that were in the London Gazette in the early years of the war, although a Google search isn't turning anything up.

From the newspaper snapshots available on FMP its looks like he was staying at 15 Blackwater Street, Rochdale while on a three day leave of absense. There was a Tuck family living there on the 1911 Census of England & Wales, but checking out the wifes maiden name it looks like she was a Howard. Perhaps the subsequent electoral registers from the period, or the 1921 Census of England & Wales will turn up other candidates from the occupants of that address. I'm assuming there is nothing in the fuller articles that indicates a pre-war occupation \ place of residence.

Cheers,
Peter

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The money was not claimed and was advertised in the London Gazette as an unclaimed estate list on list CCCCXCII
image.png

Craig

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1 hour ago, PRC said:

staying at 15 Blackwater Street, Rochdale

I read the press reports as Blackwater Street his digs for a night, before going onto 23 Pudsey Road, Cornholme, Todmorden----his former address.  I  cannot access the 1911 Census. 

Edited by michaelpi
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3 hours ago, ralphjd said:

ffects Register has his death as Sept 1914 but this is obviously wrong ,

#10287 attested 22 Sep 1914 so it appears a clerk has copied down George's enlistment date rather than his death date.

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Yes that is certainly what the report of the coroner’s inquest in the Rochdale Times says.  I have not managed to find 23 Pudsey Road Cornholme in the 1911 Census, but that is probably my incompetence.  There are some other  relevant snippets in the report

The coroner received evidence from James Beaumont, boarding house keeper of 15 Blackwater Street.  He said that George Hyde had said that he would be staying at the boarding house until the Sunday morning and would then proceed to Todmorden.  That might suggest that George had relatives in Todmorden in 1915.  The only Hydes I could find in the 1911 Census living in Todmorden were two ladies in their mid-twenties working as servants in different houses and both born in Shropshire.  Possibly sisters but it doesn’t look as though they would be close relatives of George who it is said was single.

The coroner also received evidence from Sergt James Rangeley Bridges of 6th Battalion Lancashire Fusiliers who said that George Hyde was a single man who was reticent about his personal history and that he was educated and had travelled the world.  So it may be that George has not left much of a footprint in genealogical records.

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2 hours ago, michaelpi said:

23 Pudsey Road, Cornholme, Todmorden

There is only one occupant at this address on the 1911 Census of England & Wales, a 40 year old unmarried man William Shackleton, a Wood Sawyer in the Bobbin Trade. William was born Todmordern.

Going back to the 1901 Census of England & Wales the more likely match for the 30 year old unmarried Wood Sawyer William Shackleton born Todmodern was living at 14 Gladstone Street, Todmordern. This was the household of his widowed mother Susan, aged 59 and born Todmorden. As well as William, Susans' household consists of an unmarried daughter, Annie, (32, Cotton Weaver, born Todmordern) and a 34 year old unmarried son George Shackleton, born Todmordern, and a Wood Turner.

Further back to the 1891 Census of England & Wales the widow Susan, (14), was already head of the household at 14 Gladstone Street. Children living with her include George, (24, Bobbin Turner), Annie, (22, Cotton Weaver) and William, (20, Bobbin Turner).

Scrolling forward to the 1911 Census of England & Wales the most likely candidate for George Shackleton was a 44 year old unmarried Wood Sawyer in the Bobbin Trade, born Todmorden, who was recorded as the head of the household at 9 Glen View Street, Cornholme. The only other person living with him is his sister Annie, a 42 year old unmarried cotton weaver born Todmorden.

I can't see a subsequent marriage in the Todmorden District for George Shackleton, but there is a George Shackleton born c1866 born and living at Todmorden on the 1921 Census of England & Wales and there is a death of a 60 year George Shackleton recorded in the Todmorden District in Q4 1926. No obvious civil probate.

I'm not saying George Shackleton and George Hyde are one and the same - there is still too much uncertainty and a potential death match clouding the picture. It may be nothing more than a red herring, so I'm just raising it as one to be aware of, (and stop others from disappearing down that same rabbit hole:)

Cheers,
Peter

Edited by PRC
Typos
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Peter. Certainly put a lot if effort into this , thanks. Shackleton/Hyde cannot be the same as Hyde died 1915 and Shackleton 1926, SDGW has George being born Liverpool , his death according to the Lancs BMD does not record his age listed as "O" could be a transcription error, I have a friend in the registry that may be able to help , keep you posted. Ralph

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26 minutes ago, ralphjd said:

SDGW has George being born Liverpool , his death according to the Lancs BMD does not record his age listed as "O" could be a transcription error,

Your choices from the GRO index of deaths in England and Wales, April to June quarter, 1915.

375145014_GeorgeHydeGROdeathindexQ21915sourcedGenesReunitedcrop.jpg.719afdc297f71947a73157ad1c6639bc.jpg

Image courtesy Genes Reunited.

If you compare the first digit in the age for the Rochdale registered death, (which I read as "5"), with the second digit in the page number, and also the middle digit in the page number on the line above, you can see there is a common problem with the typeset. However the "6"'s in the age in the line above and also the first digit of the page number for the Rochdale death are clearly consistant with each other.

I don't think there is any other numeral that the first digit can be confused with, so the evidence from that small crop, (and there are more all over the rest of the page), would indicate the Rochdale death was of a man stated by the informant to be aged 50. There is no way of knowing from the surviving GRO sources whether that age was verified from documentary materials or just what the informant believed it to be.

Hope that helps,
Peter

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Peter. Thanks other sites have his age as 50 so go along with that, I am informed by my registrar contact that all these typed details as per your  posted  example  have been transcribed from "original" documents by volunteers as the said originals are not viewable on any web site, so errors or superimpositions are common. In the case of the Lancs BMD entry the transcriber appears to have opted for no age as the original could not be seen clearly. Ralph 

Edited by ralphjd
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Just had access to his death register, age entered as "about 50" no family details at all just the cause of death which we know. His occupation given as a "finisher" Ralph.

Edited by ralphjd
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