robin bird Posted 9 February , 2022 Share Posted 9 February , 2022 Private Frederick Bishop Royal Scots and his brother George took part in the first charge at Mons, 1914. Both wounded while George taken prisoner (later repatriated). Frederick completed servive with Scots Greys and in 1928 became sergeant major. He held various shooting awards. In WW2 Frederick was captain adjutant Royal Regiment. Think Frederick's service number was 3090? Any info on this first charge at Mons and how one brother would have been captured? robin bird Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matlock1418 Posted 9 February , 2022 Share Posted 9 February , 2022 (edited) Welcome to GWF. These rather look like them - From MIC: LCpl. George H BISHOP D/2180, 2nd Royal Dragoons - Landed 17/8/14 - P of W Pte. Frederick BISHOP, D/3090, 2nd Royal Dragoons - Landed 17/8/14 - Later Sgt and then WO, 389516, Royal Scots Greys 2 Dragoons (Royal Scots Greys) War Diary Aug. 1914 to Feb. 1919 at TNA https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C7351494 - currently free download after free registration. M Edited 9 February , 2022 by Matlock1418 WD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robin bird Posted 9 February , 2022 Author Share Posted 9 February , 2022 thank you Matlock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EDWARD1 Posted 9 February , 2022 Share Posted 9 February , 2022 Place of capture for George Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matlock1418 Posted 9 February , 2022 Share Posted 9 February , 2022 ICRC PoW record LCpl GH BISHOP, 2180, Royal Dragoons https://grandeguerre.icrc.org/en/File/Details/4704309/3/2 M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robin bird Posted 9 February , 2022 Author Share Posted 9 February , 2022 Thanks again, info really appreciated for elderly man (older than me!) who doesn't have computer. Did not know one brother was captured. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matlock1418 Posted 9 February , 2022 Share Posted 9 February , 2022 (edited) 12 minutes ago, robin bird said: Did not know one brother was captured. From the two ICRC records you can see he was captured Rebaix, last parcel at Freidrichsfeld and was then sent to internment in Holland - this sending to Holland usually meant the man was not fit/likely to be fit enough to be a combatant in the future. Nobody here has yet identified the reason though you have earlier mentioned wounding [do you have further info?]. M Edited 9 February , 2022 by Matlock1418 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robin bird Posted 9 February , 2022 Author Share Posted 9 February , 2022 from a faded cutting/artilce Birmingham Mail 1944 about his family having given 150 years of military service up to then. Mention that brothers both wounded at Mons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matlock1418 Posted 10 February , 2022 Share Posted 10 February , 2022 17 hours ago, robin bird said: from a faded cutting/artilce Birmingham Mail 1944 about his family having given 150 years of military service up to then. Mention that brothers both wounded at Mons Whilst we always have to take such newspaper articles with caution, we cannot dismiss them outright. The fact that George Bishop was captured in 4 Sep 1914 but not released to internment in Holland until 7 Oct. 1918 rather suggests that any wounding at Mons was not severe enough for an early repatriation [such as might have been the case with an example of a limb amputation, serious head injury etc.]. Though perhaps his condition got worse over time. Given the date in 1918 there appear to be a few other scenarios that might perhaps fit his repatriation [as unfit for being a combatant/for work and yet as a PoW a drain on dwindling resources in Germany]. a) disease - a wide range of what might be considered constitutional or induced physical and/or mental health diseases might be possible - gastrointestinal conditions were frequent by that time due to a very poor diet [commonly also leading to outright malnutrition] or respiratory conditions such as influenza or perhaps TB etc. [?] b) injury - OR were expected to work so a severe injury akin to a severe wound may have lead to his release [?] Just speculating at the moment ... = Do you have / does the article contain any more info about the personal circumstances of the brothers? Dates, places, other family, medical conditions etc can be very handy in tracking them before, during and after the war. M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robin bird Posted 10 February , 2022 Author Share Posted 10 February , 2022 Thank you Matlock/Edward 1 and forum for information supplied. Latest info has also been passed on to those concerned,, who also thank you. Matlock not sure that I totally agree with your remark about newspapers. I am retired newspaperman!! Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matlock1418 Posted 10 February , 2022 Share Posted 10 February , 2022 23 minutes ago, robin bird said: Matlock not sure that I totally agree with your remark about newspapers. I am retired newspaperman!! Cheers Oops! Sorry to appear to cast aspersions on you - not my intent! Though I do think general caution should be exercised! By accident, even if not by design by family or reporter/editors etc., errors can creep into newspapers. Individual's and families' stories can get 'exaggerated' shall we say [probably more than downplayed I reckon] I know as I have a likely incorrectly reported family story - I don't know the source of the error but a mishearing/typo is certainly possible. 40 members reported as serving but I have only found 14 - you can see the potential issue here. Then again a large family so perhaps many more members that are not quite so close or known to me [?] = Caution, but not dismissed! We await further info that we hope might help uncover more for you and your friend. M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robin bird Posted 10 February , 2022 Author Share Posted 10 February , 2022 No problem. Banter. On reflection I do not know what my own gand dad did, Private Albert Neilson, Welsh Guards. He too was wounded either at Somme or Ypres. His son, my uncle, was in WW2 and now aged 95. He can remember bits from his war but not much else from the past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Rayner Posted 10 February , 2022 Share Posted 10 February , 2022 Courtesy FMP...doesn't that mean unwounded? I failed French GCE four times and never did German but... George Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matlock1418 Posted 10 February , 2022 Share Posted 10 February , 2022 (edited) 26 minutes ago, robin bird said: No problem. Banter. Yes, was recognised but ... would a newspaper man ever go on the record and admit such 'exaggeration' etc!? ;-) M 13 minutes ago, George Rayner said: doesn't that mean unwounded? Yes - Unverwundet = unwounded Some handy other info on there. @George RaynerAs a matter of interest - that useful PoW abstract shows George BISHOP, 2180, was last held at Dulmen - but what is recorded on the top of that sheet? [or at the start of the list - believe that should be the then current location - with date] M Edited 10 February , 2022 by Matlock1418 addit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Rayner Posted 10 February , 2022 Share Posted 10 February , 2022 19 hours ago, robin bird said: from a faded cutting/artilce Birmingham Mail 1944 Do you have a more accurate date please? George Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matlock1418 Posted 10 February , 2022 Share Posted 10 February , 2022 23 minutes ago, robin bird said: I do not know what my own gand dad did, Private Albert Neilson, Welsh Guards. He too was wounded either at Somme or Ypres. Suggest you start a NEW THREAD for him, with a few more details perhaps - you never know what we can turn up! [I've at least one possibility] M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robin bird Posted 10 February , 2022 Author Share Posted 10 February , 2022 Thanks again everyone. Have returned documents about Bishops including a big article in the Birmingham Post 1944 about generations of the Bishop family, from Birmingham, serving in the Army. 150 years in total. My pal well pleased by info received via forum. Incidentally, I am surprised how my generation 70 plus seem to know little about their grand dad's war. Maybe they did not talk about it, or as children we were not interested. In contrast I know lots about my late father's WW2 time with the Marine Aircraft Experimental Establishment and then the Airborne Forces Experimental Establishment. Have written several published articles as a result. Will try and get more info from Uncle Eric about Albert Neilson but some days he cannot remember things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matlock1418 Posted 14 February , 2022 Share Posted 14 February , 2022 On 10/02/2022 at 10:51, robin bird said: I do not know what my own gand dad did, Private Albert Neilson, Welsh Guards. He too was wounded either at Somme or Ypres As suggested a new thread was started by you - Here is the link for the benefit of others who may encounter Albert Neilson in this thread: This way any future contributions on Albert Nelson will hopefully get added to the other/more correct thread. M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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