Jump to content
The Great War (1914-1918) Forum

Relic P1907 HQ - unit marked. Modified/Damaged - but why?


4thGordons

Recommended Posts

I suspect this is unanswerable but I am posting to invite speculation/thoughts.

I recently bought a near relic (heavily pitted blade) but unit marked P1907 HQ  - it was comparatively well priced because of the generally poor condition and the radical modification (ie the muzzle ring has been removed!) this strikes me as a bit of an odd thing to do unless the intention was to allow it to fit on a different rifle - quite a lot of work even with an angle grinder.  I have tried it on a number or weapons to see if it will fit (thus far without luck on Turkish Mausers, GEW 88s etc) - it does still fit (although loosely) in a ShtLE but does not fit on an MLE as the lug is far too thick and of a different design. It just occurred to me that a P1914 or M1917 might be worth a go too but it's going to be very loose with just the lug to hold it.

The unit marks appear to be KRR (Kings Royal Rifles) struck out and replaced by ASH (Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders)

IMG_0801.JPG.6925a8cbe395975155c0bcb633fb64a0.JPG

The bayonet itself seems to be a     Sanderson    probably produced in ?7? 1909

IMG_0805.JPG.2b293ffdcef2d4c8a8d9b723cd9cada0.JPG

The ring removal has been done neatly and not all that recently (although a little hard to tell)

IMG_0807.JPG.f6235b167e2117bfd318cfdd1891a2b7.JPG

It does look here like a semi-circular chunk has been deliberately cut out of the front edge of the guard (with the blade being marked in the process)

 

IMG_0808.JPG.22b57010c7ae87794085d89cb0194c84.JPG

Happy with it as a relic example but puzzled as to why it might have been so altered.

Interested in the thoughts of the specialists.....

Chris

IMG_0811.JPG

Edited by 4thGordons
Link to comment
Share on other sites

As to why the ring was removed, that as Dad would say is the "$64 Question."  From my observation of your pictures, the ring was removed comparatively recently, as the corrosion on the blade is more advanced than that where the ring was.  My guess it that it wasn't done for a military reason.  As to the cut out in the hilt, it was possibly done to fit over something. 

Edited by Old War Skule
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I tend to agree with Old War Skule' that this 'modification' looks 'recent' rather than 'ancient'. As for why, maybe a broken or twisted muzzlering? I am assuming it still fits a SMLE if not very well.

Trajan 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It does mount on an SMLE but is very wobbly - not just because of the missing muzzle ring but it appears the slot may be larger than usual. It may just be wear or a question of tolerances (I only tried it on one SMLE) or it may have been enlarged - I'll get the calipres on it and see.

FWIW I agree that it is most likely a post official military use alteration.

Chris

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Wout muzzle ring is this only sidearm not bayonet as the pommel is too short to hold securely the bayonet on rifle.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...