War Department Constabulary

[fremlin]

Please forgive me if this post-war topic seems to be beyond the margins of relevance but I would argue that a number of soldiers who fought in the Great War were the foundations of this new force established in 1925 to take over security at  Ordnance Factories, stores, depots etc.

Applicants for the force had to be a Sergeant (or higher) in the Army, or at least a Corporal in the RMP, to be of exemplary character, and preferably to hold a Long Service Medal and a 22 year pension. My Great Uncle was an example: a career soldier, who served through the Great War and beyond in the Grenadier Guards, ending as a Sergeant in the 1st Battalion. In 1925 he joined the WD Constabulary and was attached to Royal Ordnance Factories at Didcot and Burscough,, and possibly Woolwich.

My question is this: where (if anywhere) are the records of the W.D. Constabulary relating to personnel (postings etc.) kept, and are they accessible? I did try asking Army Personnel Centre at Glasgow but got no response.

[ss002d6252]

6 minutes ago, fremlin said:

Please forgive me if this post-war topic seems to be beyond the margins of relevance but I would argue that a number of soldiers who fought in the Great War were the foundations of this new force established in 1925 to take over security at  Ordnance Factories, stores, depots etc.

Applicants for the force had to be a Sergeant (or higher) in the Army, or at least a Corporal in the RMP, to be of exemplary character, and preferably to hold a Long Service Medal and a 22 year pension. My Great Uncle was an example: a career soldier, who served through the Great War and beyond in the Grenadier Guards, ending as a Sergeant in the 1st Battalion. In 1925 he joined the WD Constabulary and was attached to Royal Ordnance Factories at Didcot and Burscough,, and possibly Woolwich.

My question is this: where (if anywhere) are the records of the W.D. Constabulary relating to personnel (postings etc.) kept, and are they accessible? I did try asking Army Personnel Centre at Glasgow but got no response.

Might be something the NA papers - https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/results/r?_q="War+Department+Constabulary"

Craig

[fremlin]

Thanks for the reply,

At least one of the documents looks very promising - the Royal Logistic Cops Museum's list of staff at Didcot in 1928 (which is where he was serving at that time). When I'm next at TNA I will investigate other files.

I was perhaps being super optimistic in wondering whether the WD Constabulary service records are held centrally as Army and other service records are.  I imagined that there once would have been such a record,, although whether it has been retained is another story.

[Toontraveller]

I would also love to know if there are any central location of records for the  War Department Constabulary, I don’t think  there is but happy to be wrong.

 I have a small project underway and am researching the War Department Constabulary based at Woolwich Arsenal in London who took over from policing responsibility at the Arsenal on 1 st January 1926 from the Metropolitan Police.
I have identified names and have limited information on about  100 War Department Constabulary officers so far and as you mention the vast majority were WW1 veterans. . 

If you post your Great Uncles name  I will see if I have identified him so far as serving at Woolwich.

[Keith_history_buff]

There are no records to this body, which eventually merged with the Admiralty Constabulary and AIr Force Department Constabulary to become the MOD Police in 1971, that are held.

Any WW1 veterans who would have served would have had their records destroyed 100 years after their birth date. The records for MOD Police and predecessors would be administered by the Defence Business Services (DBS) Record Management office, covering MoD Civilian Archive records kept for the purposes of pension calculations.

There was a WW1 veteran who was at Zeebrugge with the Royal Marines, Arthur George Pope. His service record made mention of him joining the Royal Marine Police. Nothing was forthcoming from the two MOD departments contacted in 2017, in respect of his service with this forerunner to the MOD Police.

[Keith_history_buff]

Whilst there's nothing with the MOD, could these people have some information in their archives? They had something in relation to George Arthur Pope.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wf3QWzQulQc

[Toontraveller]

Keith, thank you .

I had suspected as much but glad you confirmed it for me, very grateful. 

I will keep working away at the project and try to flesh out details of the War Department Constabulary (WDC ) officers I have identified so far, including the links to WW1 service. Based on the recruitment criteria all most have served in WW1 in one capacity or another. 

Hopefully if any other member sees this post and recognises someone who served in the WDC at Woolwich Arsenal they will contact me  to fill in the gaps especially around their WW1 service. 
 

 

[fremlin]

Toon Traveller

Sorry for delay in replying - I've not visited the site for quite a while.

The Great Uncle is William George Richardson (dob 29.9.1884) who served in the Grenadier Guards 1905 - 1912, and was recalled in 1914, serving as a Sergeant - 1 Bn. until 1925  I believe. He was at ROF Didcot in 1926 and ROF Burscough in 1942, and he might have ended his career at Woolwich where he was living by 1949, and he died there in 1954. I don't know when retirement age was.

I would be very grateful if you have any information re Woolwich.

[Keith_history_buff]

@Toontraveller it would appear that the Ministry of Defence Police (MDP) Museum at Wethersfield has now closed, as a consequence of the MDP HQ relocating. It would appear that some of their collection will have gone to the National Emergencies Museum at Sheffield, and there's the risk that some of their collection could have been otherwise disposed.

[Toontraveller]

4 hours ago, fremlin said:

Toon Traveller

Sorry for delay in replying - I've not visited the site for quite a while.

The Great Uncle is William George Richardson (dob 29.9.1884) who served in the Grenadier Guards 1905 - 1912, and was recalled in 1914, serving as a Sergeant - 1 Bn. until 1925  I believe. He was at ROF Didcot in 1926 and ROF Burscough in 1942, and he might have ended his career at Woolwich where he was living by 1949, and he died there in 1954. I don't know when retirement age was.

I would be very grateful if you have any information re Woolwich.

Fremlin, good evening, thank you for your response.

Since I started researching at this I have compiled quite a few possibilities of War Department Constables who served in WW1.

I have previously identified a William George Richardson ( no further details) with his wife a Jessie Walden Richardson,  as a War Department Constable living at the Royal Arsenal Woolwich. The War Department  Constables quite clearly moved around to other War Department establishments  but for some they did remain in and around Woolwich. 

As this is aspect is outside the era for the Forum I will message you with the limited information I have.

Edited 21 January , 2023 by Toontraveller
Typo

[Toontraveller]

2 hours ago, Keith_history_buff said:

@Toontraveller it would appear that the Ministry of Defence Police (MDP) Museum at Wethersfield has now closed, as a consequence of the MDP HQ relocating. It would appear that some of their collection will have gone to the National Emergencies Museum at Sheffield, and there's the risk that some of their collection could have been otherwise disposed.

Keith, Thank you for your information,

i did start to look for the Museum at the time I started the research but could see it was closed, I still have not located a central record depository but by personal research I have I believe identified quite a few who served as War Department Constables.

Its work in progress and suspect it will be for some time. I will keep  researching and adding to my list. 

[fremlin]

It's always exciting when years down the line you find another little piece of the jig saw - I didn't know about him being at Woolwich then. Unfortunately in my excitement I appear to have deleted or mislaid the crucial information re dates (poor family history technique on my part!) so I wonder if @Toontravelleryou would be so kind as to message me again with that information. William Richardson's wife was Jessie Waldron Richardson, and their daughter born at “Number 4, Block 5, The Camp, Didcot” on 24^th February 1926 according to her birth certificate was Peggy Jess. William Richardson's Grenadier  service number was 12458.

Any idea when retirement age was for the WD Constabulary?

[Toontraveller]

17 hours ago, fremlin said:

It's always exciting when years down the line you find another little piece of the jig saw - I didn't know about him being at Woolwich then. Unfortunately in my excitement I appear to have deleted or mislaid the crucial information re dates (poor family history technique on my part!) so I wonder if @Toontravelleryou would be so kind as to message me again with that information. William Richardson's wife was Jessie Waldron Richardson, and their daughter born at “Number 4, Block 5, The Camp, Didcot” on 24^th February 1926 according to her birth certificate was Peggy Jess. William Richardson's Grenadier  service number was 12458.

Any idea when retirement age was for the WD Constabulary?

fremlin, , I will send details on email, no problems.

Thank you for confirming additional details of his WW1 Service and information which confirms it’s him living at the Royal Arsenal Woolwich . I will add the details to my list of War Department Constabulary. 

Retirement date I’m not sure I will check the original adverts for recruitment of War Department Constabulary , but sure there was no specific retirement date . Original recruits had to have completed long service ( 22 years) in the Armed  Service's so majority who first joined in 1925/26 would be early fourties. 

The regular Police Officers served at that time for 25 years before pension .