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The Great War (1914-1918) Forum

Rifles


VimysValour

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This is from WWI, triple Entent I belive. (: I'll try and take pictures of the other ones when I get the chance 😊

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Just now, shippingsteel said:

No, this is a British SMLE rifle but a later version the No.4, which was from WW2.

Cheers, SS 

Oh I'm sorry 😅 I honestly dident realize and I must have taken a picture of the wrong one. Here let me post one I'm sure is from WWI 

Sorry everyone! 

IMG_20211207_092423_930.jpg

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This must be what they call “ FINE ART “!

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A quick question, looking at the bolt on a rifle mounted on the right hand side, what about left handed shooters did they have to put their hand over to operate the bolt.

Thanks.

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1 minute ago, Roger Thompson said:

A quick question, looking at the bolt on a rifle mounted on the right hand side, what about left handed shooters did they have to put their hand over to operate the bolt.

Thanks.

There's a good chance that as a child they would learn to use their right hand. From what I know you couldn't shoot properly being lefthanded. 

They'd probably just have to get used to it.

Just now, VimysValour said:

There's a good chance that as a child they would learn to use their right hand. From what I know you couldn't shoot properly being lefthanded. 

They'd probably just have to get used to it.

Take a look at this thread (:

Screenshot_20220124-160919_Chrome.jpg

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You can't do rapid fire off the left shoulder with an SMLE - you either take it out of aim and work the bolt right-handed, or you pass the left hand over the top. If you do that, IIRC you still have to take it partially out of aim.

But it's one of the few rifles I've found where you can actually aim with the right eye off the left shoulder.

I'm left-handed for writing and some other functions, but I shot No.1s and No.4s for years, and like VimyValours says, I 'just had to get used to' shooting it right-handed - and that really wasn't much of a problem.

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I am left handed. When in the Army, not much problems shooting the M-16 lefty, they gave me a single piece plastic shell deflector

As collector, I simply reach over the receiver and partly re- aim. No shoot rifles in far too long, years, but shot Long Lee, Lee Speed, R.I.C. Carb.  M-71 rifles and Carbines, all a few years ago.  I don’t know if I would even hit paper right handed

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Thank you everybody I'm satisfied with the answer.

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  • 2 months later...

There is a bit in They Shall Not Grow Old filmed on a rifle range showing a left-handed soldier reaching over his rifle to work the bolt. It stood out to me as I would have thought that in that era he would have been taught otherwise by the time he got to the Army!

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I am right-handed, and have a very vague memory that the British army taught you if left-handed how to operate the bolt with the right hand. Modern times I think it is different. Don't they make a right and left SA80?

Julian

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4 hours ago, trajan said:

I am right-handed, and have a very vague memory that the British army taught you if left-handed how to operate the bolt with the right hand. Modern times I think it is different. Don't they make a right and left SA80?

Julian

I don't think so -- in fact I think it was one of the things about the design that was criticized (the spent case is only ejected on the right as far as I know so that would be straight into your face if it was shouldered on the left)

Chris

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31 minutes ago, 4thGordons said:

I don't think so -- in fact I think it was one of the things about the design that was criticized (the spent case is only ejected on the right as far as I know so that would be straight into your face if it was shouldered on the left)

Chris

Yes, that was my point - that they did make a left-handed version of the SA80 ejecting to the left.  Maybe a (semi-)urban myth I picked up from army relatives kidding me along... After all, it would be a bit of a bu**er if a soldier picked up the wrong one!

Julian

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10 hours ago, 4thGordons said:

I don't think so -- in fact I think it was one of the things about the design that was criticized (the spent case is only ejected on the right as far as I know so that would be straight into your face if it was shouldered on the left)

Chris

I seem to remember that there was also some criticism that, not being able to shoot from the left shoulder, it meant you had problem shooting to the left of cover.  You would have to expose more of yourself leaning out to shoot from the right shoulder.  After the First Gulf War there was a report commissioned, the Landset Report, which was highly critical of the SA80 system.  The report received much coverage in Handgunner magazine at the time.

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I believe you can solve the issue by holding the rifle upside down 🙃( makes using the optical sighting system tough though) 😉

Chris

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:D

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On 24/01/2022 at 22:13, MikB said:

You can't do rapid fire off the left shoulder with an SMLE - you either take it out of aim and work the bolt right-handed, or you pass the left hand over the top. If you do that, IIRC you still have to take it partially out of aim.

But it's one of the few rifles I've found where you can actually aim with the right eye off the left shoulder.

I'm left-handed for writing and some other functions, but I shot No.1s and No.4s for years, and like VimyValours says, I 'just had to get used to' shooting it right-handed - and that really wasn't much of a problem.

I'm cack-handed, and I always did very well with the No4 from the left shoulder. In fact I was a marksman 1st class when I was in the Army Cadets. I couldn't match the 'mad minute', but I was no slouch either. Even when serving in the regulars I continued to fire from the left shoulder. I never noticed the empties whizzing past my face from the SLR or the Sterling! The Bren was the only weapon I ever used from my right shoulder.

Cheers,

           Steve

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1 hour ago, Stevie said:

I'm cack-handed, and I always did very well with the No4 from the left shoulder. In fact I was a marksman 1st class when I was in the Army Cadets. I couldn't match the 'mad minute', but I was no slouch either. Even when serving in the regulars I continued to fire from the left shoulder. I never noticed the empties whizzing past my face from the SLR or the Sterling! The Bren was the only weapon I ever used from my right shoulder.

Cheers,

           Steve

Well, I shot No.4s in the CCF back in the 60s, but more recently the club I was in shot a competition with rapid and weak-shoulder stages. The rapid phase only required 10 rounds in a minute single-loaded, and I found I could (just!) do that (for a laff) with a Snider-Enfield Mk.III. These extract but don't eject - you have to turn 'em over and maybe shake to ditch the empty.

But for the left shoulder stage my left eye is very poor and the only rifle I had that would let me get my right eye in line with the sights was the SMLE MK.III*.

:) 

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2 hours ago, Stevie said:

 I never noticed the empties whizzing past my face from the SLR or the Sterling! 

           Steve

But neither of those are a bullpup design! That puts the ejection port right in your face to say nothing of the cocking lever whizzing back and forth!

Chris

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12 hours ago, 4thGordons said:

But neither of those are a bullpup design! That puts the ejection port right in your face to say nothing of the cocking lever whizzing back and forth!

Chris

The ejection port on an SLR and the Sterling is actually forward of your face, as is the cocking lever of the Sterling when it is at it's rearmost travel. The rearmost position of the cocking lever on the Sterling is approximately the same as that of the German Mp40, and the Mp40 has it's cocking lever on the left of the receiver. The only thing you had to watch out for, was how you positioned your right hand near the ejection port of the Sterling. As for left-handers cocking the SLR, it was simply a matter of tilting the rifle to the right  with the left hand whilst holding the pistol grip, and cocking with the right hand. To me it seemed quite natural to do, it only looks difficult to those who shoot from the right shoulder. The only problem for me as a left hander - when cocking the Lee Enfield - was when in the sitting, kneeling, or standing position. When lying prone it really didn't make much difference. I've included a picture of my friend firing the Mp38 back in the 1970's to show how far forward the ejection port on blowback smg's actually was from the face.

Cheers,

           Steve

img20220406_11434514.jpg

Edited by Stevie
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5 hours ago, Stevie said:

The ejection port on an SLR and the Sterling is actually forward of your face, as is the cocking lever of the Sterling when it is at it's rearmost travel. The rearmost position of the cocking lever on the Sterling is approximately the same as that of the German Mp40, and the Mp40 has it's cocking lever on the left of the receiver. The only thing you had to watch out for, was how you positioned your right hand near the ejection port of the Sterling. As for left-handers cocking the SLR, it was simply a matter of tilting the rifle to the right  with the left hand whilst holding the pistol grip, and cocking with the right hand. To me it seemed quite natural to do, it only looks difficult to those who shoot from the right shoulder. The only problem for me as a left hander - when cocking the Lee Enfield - was when in the sitting, kneeling, or standing position. When lying prone it really didn't make much difference. I've included a picture of my friend firing the Mp38 back in the 1970's to show how far forward the ejection port on blowback smg's actually was from the face.

Cheers,

           Steve

 

Yes that was exactly the point I was making -- The L85 (and the earlier EM-2) as bullpup designs, put the extraction port and cocking lever right where your face/cheek would be if shouldered on the left  (unlike the SLR etc where both port and ejection port are a good way forward as you say.)

The closest I have come to this was spotting for a friend who was shooting a Garand M1 and I was lying to his right using a scope and managed to get two red-hot empty cases down the collar of my shirt and onto my back -- cue wild jumping around and odd gyrations!

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From dad's experience in WW II, he couldn't wink his left eye closed for some reason.  So, he learned to shoot left handed as a child.  In the Army, he was told, "You're going to shoot our way, or else!"  On the range, he'd close his left eye with his hand and qualified fine. 

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16 hours ago, Old War Skule said:

From dad's experience in WW II, he couldn't wink his left eye closed for some reason.  So, he learned to shoot left handed as a child.  In the Army, he was told, "You're going to shoot our way, or else!"  On the range, he'd close his left eye with his hand and qualified fine. 

I can't close my right eye. They could 'or else' until time ends and I still wouldn't be able to do it. The very thought makes me see square.

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