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German captured p1907 made by Sanderson


Deges

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I've got this late war P1907 bayonet made by Sanderson with his pommel stamped with an German Eagle indicating that it was captured and reissued by the Germans during ww1. It has a ww2 scabbard on it. 

It was reissued by the British army in 1926 seeing the stamp on the ricasso. 

Could this one, after falling in hands of the Germans, again been issued by the British army? Or indicates this that the stamp is fake? 

Are there cases known of fake stamps like this? I don't see any p1907 for sale like this or been sold in the past. (maybe I'm not looking good:)) 

Any info is welcome. 

Thank you! 

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Edited by Deges
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By 4/17 production date i would tend to a fake german stamp, similar property stamps were added mostly in period 1914/5, secondly as You mentioned this was refurbished postwar 1926, so already in british hands. Question remains the clearing hole was done already by production or post 1917? i believe the eagle stamp is twice stamped and the crown is not good visible.area is strangely rusted when compare the smooth finish on side of pommel? There exist some different bayonets that were stamped with similar fake dies. The scabbard i assume is late production. I dont see any german refurbishment on that piece.

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Possibly a stupid suggestion... could it be an Austrian eagle? I believe a quantity of SMLE’s were supplied after WWII for Austrian police use.

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52 minutes ago, peregrinvs said:

Possibly a stupid suggestion... could it be an Austrian eagle? I believe a quantity of SMLE’s were supplied after WWII for Austrian police use.

I think this is absolutely bang on. Applying Occam's Bayonet (as it were) it would account for everything I see on the bayonet

I have a couple of the post WWII supplied Oesterreich Gendarmerie marked rifles and I believe this is probably one of the bayonets paired with them.

Chris

 

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I dont known the austrian eagle looks little different and have broken chain in lower part with hammer and sickle in claws,  should be compared but it could be real. Maybe when the area would be cleaned lightly there would be more details of eagle visible.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coat_of_arms_of_Austria#/media/File:Wappen_der_Republik_Österreich.svg

Edited by AndyBsk
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Wow, anytime I put something on this forum you guys always seem to amaze me! Thank you for that! 🙏

So like Andy said, German capture is probably not the situation here. 👍

@ Chris and peregrinvs, die you guys have examples or pictures? 

And what do you mean by Occams bayonet? 🙈

Thank you! 

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I would compare the stamp with pieces marked in war with german eagle, in Williams or Mery book or when presented here in forum, as the crown  here on eagle head looks more like the old prussian crown as the austrian postwar republic, and i saw some S84/98 bayonets converted post WW2 for assembly on british rifles for austria.

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Picture239_-1.jpg

My rifles are inaccessible at the moment but here is a pic of the type of marking on the Austrian marked No1MkIII* s supplied post WWII

I have to say I would not want to say for certain it is the same as that on the bayonet given the lack of clarity on the marking on the bayonet, but neither could I dismiss it.

1 hour ago, Deges said:

 

And what do you mean by Occams bayonet? 🙈

 

Sorry - bad joke.  Bayonet = Razor.   William of Occam - 13th Century monk/philosopher who is credited with "Occam's Razor "(a principle by which - in essence - the simplest explanation which accounts for all the variables is usually the correct one so if there are convoluted and complex explanations by which something can be explained and much more simple straight-forward ones - the simple ones are usually the best. As bayonet with contradictory appearing makings ("German capture" marks and also inter-war British reissue marks which are hard to explain without a fairly convoluted story a simple explanation seems more likely)

 

Chris

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The discussion of capture markings reminds me of a British 1939 Pattern entrenching tool I once saw online that was being sold as a WWI German entrenching tool. The dealer explained the British markings away as ‘capture and reissue’ markings. Whether this was wishful thinking or brass neck I don’t know.

Edited by peregrinvs
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Should be similar, but on pommel there is twice stamped with no visible lower part, so remains a question its a period or faked one.

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Deges,

Is the blade of this (possibly captured by the Germans) bayonet dull or sharp?

Regards,

JMB

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  • 2 weeks later...

Deges,

Thank you for the info.

Regards,

JMB

 

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