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Remembered Today:

Identifying a soldier - MC & Bar, 1937 Coronation Medal, Belgian Croix de Guerre, WW1 Trio


Andrew Upton
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Now my main remaining question is - what rank do I replace on the epaulettes? In 1937 it would have been Major, and in 1941 it could have been Lieutenant Colonel. In 1947 it might even have been Colonel, but would a man at the very end of his career have updated his uniform to reflect this...? My gut feeling at this stage is to restore it to its just-pre-WW2 appearance, and replace only the Majors crowns:

s-l1600 (7).jpg

 

Edited by Andrew Upton
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If he got ww2 medals then rank needs to predate when ww2 ribbons got issued 

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And very well done on working out who the officer was. 

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9 hours ago, Coldstreamer said:

If he got ww2 medals then rank needs to predate when ww2 ribbons got issued 

And very well done on working out who the officer was. 

Thanks, and good point - his WW2 service would seem to indicate his medal entitlement to have been something like the 1939-45 Star, BWM and Defence Medal:

image.png.227ba13f7aa887e0755157b71dc714d9.png

If that is correct, the lack of the 1939-45 Star ribbon would tend to indicate the jacket wasn't updated after late 1943, in which case Major or Lieutenant-Colonel would be the only two contenders...

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Are there holes for just a crown or crown and pip ?

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57 minutes ago, Coldstreamer said:

Are there holes for just a crown or crown and pip ?

Unfortunately it's not exactly clear - I've done a colour coded version of the holes in the epaulette below. There are two sets of horizontal holes (blue and yellow) in the position nearest the shoulder, and only one set of vertical holes (red) in the same place. My gut feeling currently is the yellow holes represent his original pip from 1913 as a newly commissioned 2nd Lieutenant, with the white and green showing his subsequent promotions to Lieutenant and then Captain (with the blue holes nearer the shoulder representing a slight space change needed to more evenly fit the three pips in). Crowns are more commonly found with the lugs vertically, so the red would make sense as a Majors crown - but given they can also be found with horizontal lugs and the jacket probably spent well over a decade with only Captains rank up that doesn't rule out the possibility that more than one set of crowns has been on it in it's lifetime, and the horizontal holes reused...

 

790638588_Ricepipcrownplacementholes.jpg.6a4af5d422f1fdf2b8b65eb84d9ee4e1.jpg

 

Edited by Andrew Upton
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Hi Andrew, 

Fascinating, what a result!

Some more family info.....

He was married on 16th Dec, 1922, Captain, RFA. Lived at 8 Woodlands, Rd, Camberley, Surrey where he died  14th September, 1976. His wife Kathleen Elizabeth May  died. 1st July, 1977, same address.

Marriage cert. here....https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/4779/images/40815_1831101883_0861-00066?pId=2721620

His  daughter  Jennifer Madge Celia Rice,   b.17th Nov, 1928 d. 24th Oct, 2020, Farnham, Surrey

1944 Army No. 1796348.

Family tree on Ancestry with the photo...here...https://www.ancestry.co.uk/family-tree/person/tree/64970099/person/48131805915/facts

Regards Barry

Edited by The Inspector
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3 hours ago, The Inspector said:

Fascinating, what a result!

Some more family info.....

Thanks for that Barry :thumbsup:

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On 23/01/2022 at 17:48, Andrew Upton said:

Thanks, and good point - his WW2 service would seem to indicate his medal entitlement to have been something like the 1939-45 Star, BWM and Defence Medal:

image.png.227ba13f7aa887e0755157b71dc714d9.png

If that is correct, the lack of the 1939-45 Star ribbon would tend to indicate the jacket wasn't updated after late 1943, in which case Major or Lieutenant-Colonel would be the only two contenders...

Hi,

I don’t believe W Africa was a Theatre of War so (if I’m correct) I can’t see a 39/45 Star entitlement in the brief service history quoted - unless he went overseas with 51st HD in 1939/40 BEF?

Steve

Edited by tullybrone
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7 hours ago, tullybrone said:

I don’t believe W Africa was a Theatre of War so (if I’m correct) I can’t see a 39/45 Star entitlement in the brief service history quoted - unless he went overseas with 51st HD in BEF?

That may very well be true, I struggle to comprehend some of the WW2 Star requirements for entitlement without my brain starting to dribble out my ears. However, even if the 1939-45 Star doesn't look likely if the possible BWM and Defense Medal entitlement is still correct that would suggest that the jacket wasn't updated post late 1945/1946, which would still pre-date his honorary promotion to Colonel, and leave either Majors or Lieutenant-Colonels rank as possibilities...

6 hours ago, Allan1892 said:

Cracking bit of detective work Andrew, well done!

Thanks :)

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