Shoulder lanyard colour?

[BigR]

Hello all,

I am in the process of having my great grandfathers picture from WWI colourised (picture attahced) but I have no idea what colour his shoulder lanyard would be. He was in the Border regiment when this photo was taken and was the regimental quartermaster sergeant - i think? His medal roll has AWO CLASS 1 next to his name while in the Border regiment. He was in the East Surrey regiment prior to this.

Any help would be much appreciated.

 

Many thanks

 

Mark

Edited 7 January , 2022 by BigR

[FROGSMILE]

24 minutes ago, BigR said:

Hello all,

I am in the process of having my great grandfathers picture from WWI colourised (picture attahced) but I have no idea what colour his shoulder lanyard would be. He was in the Border regiment when this photo was taken and was the regimental quartermaster sergeant - i think? His medal roll has AWO CLASS 1 next to his name while in the Border regiment. He was in the East Surrey regiment prior to this.

Any help would be much appreciated.

 

Many thanks

 

Mark

It wasn’t at all usual for lanyards to be coloured at that time other than that some mounted regiments whitened theirs, it certainly wasn’t common or authorised in infantry regiments.  The more modern tradition of coloured lanyards is a post WW2 development.

The lanyard in your photo is likely to be brownish khaki as in the colour of unbleached twine.  Soldier’s plaited the lanyards themselves and there were a variety of ways (styles) to do so.  I suggest you just colour it a contrasting (usually lighter) shade of khaki to the jacket.

The badge of rank seen is that for a Warrant Officer Class II from 1915 to 1919.  That badge was indeed worn by RQMS and Company Sergeants Major.  From 1919 the badge with wreath around was adopted for RQMS (and all other QMS).

NB.  His jacket looks as if it was probably made for him (bespoke).  It fits very well, has a particularly pristine appearance, and is missing both, the upper pocket pleats and shoulder reinforcement panels that are usual on the standard issue.  It does not appear to be the emergency pattern issued as a stopgap 1914-15.

Edited 7 January , 2022 by FROGSMILE

[Pete_C]

17 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said:

NB.  His jacket looks as if it was probably made for him (bespoke).  It fits very well, has a particularly pristine appearance, and is missing both, the upper pocket pleats and shoulder reinforcement panels that are usual on the standard issue.  It does not appear to be the emergency pattern issued as a stopgap 1914-15.

It's highly likely to be a US made 'Emergency Pattern' simplified jacket. Many were made from a thick, superior quality cloth, compared to British made jackets. This example still has its plain blackened brass buttons.

Pete

[FROGSMILE]

4 minutes ago, Pete_C said:

It's highly likely to be a US made 'Emergency Pattern' simplified jacket. Many were made from a thick, superior quality cloth, compared to British made jackets. This example still has its plain blackened brass buttons.

Pete

Thank you Pete, I think you’re right.  That seems to match perfectly.  It’s the best photo I think I’ve ever seen of the American manufactured version.  Thank you for posting it. 

NB.  I wonder how many of them were procured by the British government.  They seem quite rare in photographs (notwithstanding that the Army was enormous).

Edited 7 January , 2022 by FROGSMILE

[BigR]

Both, thank you very much for your responses, it is very much helpful.

The other query I have is over the ribbon attached to hit jacket. I believed it to be his queens south africa medal ribbon but the gentleman colourising the photo suggests that the shade of the colours do not match the sample I gave him. I dont think it could be any of the treo... I cant quite pin a date on the photo... I do know he transfered from the Border regiment to the Kings Liverpool regiment on 2.5.1917 where he served at Frongoch Bala POW camp before finaly transfering to the RE where he spent the last years of his service at Port Richborough and Dover. His medal roll is as follows:

 

• The Queens South Africa medal with clasps “Relief of Ladysmith” & “Tugela Heights” (3270 Pte. J. Yeakes, 2^nd E. Surrey Regt) issued 1900
• 1914-1915 Star (22666 Sgt. J. Yeakes 1^ST Border Rgt) issued 1920
• British War (22666 Sgt. J. Yeakes 1^ST Border Rgt) issued 1920
• Allied Victory (22666 Sgt. J. Yeakes 1^ST Border Rgt) issued 1920

I have also attached a picture from when he was a sergeant in the East Surrey Regiment and you can Just make out the same ribbon. He transferred from East Surrey to Border rgt on 24.11.1915 prior to setting off for Gallipoli..

 

Man thanks

[FROGSMILE]

@RNCVR(Bryan) is very good at medal ribbons and might well be able to help.  He’s in Canada, but will I’m sure log in once the sun rises there.

[RNCVR]

Sun not up yet where I live in ON, & it's -18!

I agree, he is wearing the ribbon of the Queen's South Africa medal.

[CorporalPunishment]

19 minutes ago, RNCVR said:

Sun not up yet where I live in ON, & it's -18!

I agree, he is wearing the ribbon of the Queen's South Africa medal.

Me too.   Pete.

[FROGSMILE]

Thank you both, that’s certainly a definitive response for the OP. 👍

[BigR]

Well that settles it  Thank you all for your input, very much appreciated.

 

Mark

[Grovetown]

3 hours ago, Pete_C said:

Many were made from a thick, superior quality cloth, compared to British made jackets.

Of the three US Simplifieds I have known - owning two - the quality of two were excellent, while one of mine (illustrated) was rubbish - you couldn't imagine anything shoddier. All three are shown in Campaign 1915.

3 hours ago, FROGSMILE said:

I wonder how many of them were procured by the British government.  

1.3 million.

Cheers,

GT.

[FROGSMILE]

4 minutes ago, Grovetown said:

Of the three US Simplifieds I have known - owning two - the quality of two were excellent, while one of mine (illustrated) was rubbish - you couldn't imagine anything shoddier. All three are shown in Campaign 1915.

1.3 million.

Cheers,

GT.

Thank you for the reply to my query, 1.3 million seems a not insubstantial amount, but knowing the total of all types would help put it in proportion.  Photos of the jacket seem relatively rare, but then of course the size of the army and sheer number of photos that must’ve been taken has to be factored in.

Edited 7 January , 2022 by FROGSMILE

[Grovetown]

6 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said:

Thank you for the reply to my query, 1.3 million seems a not insubstantial amount, but knowing the total of all types would help put it in proportion.  Photos of the jacket seem relatively rare, but then of course the size of the army and sheer number of photos that must’ve been taken has to be factored in.

Depending on source, the upper figure for all SD jackets ordered is 32.5m, with the lower number being 26.8m.

While we know that 1.3m Simplifieds were ordered from the US, we don't know what the split of the (British made) remainder is between Simplifieds and 'standard' SD.

Cheers,

GT.

[FROGSMILE]

4 minutes ago, Grovetown said:

Depending on source, the upper figure for all SD jackets ordered is 32.5m, with the lower number being 26.8m.

While we know that 1.3m Simplifieds were ordered from the US, we don't know what the split of the (British made) remainder is between Simplifieds and 'standard' SD.

Cheers,

GT.

Ah yes I see.  Although an imperfect equation it’s interesting nonetheless.  Thank you.

[Andrew Upton]

14 hours ago, BigR said:

...The other query I have is over the ribbon attached to hit jacket. I believed it to be his queens south africa medal ribbon but the gentleman colourising the photo suggests that the shade of the colours do not match the sample I gave him....

As stated above, it is definitely the QSA ribbon. The difference in colouring to what you would expect to see is due to the predominant use of orthochromatic film in the period. This tends to see some light colours (eg red, orange, yellow) as very dark, whilst other darker colours (eg purple and blue) get seen as very light:

 

Edited 8 January , 2022 by Andrew Upton

[BigR]

Thank you Andrew, I shall pass that information onto the gentleman colouring the photo.

 

Many thanks

 

Mark