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Test trenches at Flanagan's Quarry/Flanagan's quarries. Where were they?


depaor01

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Afternoon all,

I had a query in about the above location and have searched in vain for references - maybe someone here can help.

The enquirer is writing a book about Charles Frederick Ball (1879-1915), Assistant Keeper at the Botanic Gardens, Glasnevin, Dublin who was killed at Gallipoli.

He enlisted with the 7th Battalion, Royal Dublin Fusiliers. When they were based in the Royal Barracks, Dublin, early in 1915, before being sent overseas. It was reported that they spent a lot of time practising trench digging at ‘Flanagan’s Quarry’, about five miles outside Dublin, although the reports do not specify where this was. It is thought (but not certain) the quarries might have been in Clondalkin.

His references are as follows:

 

‘They will never forget Flanagan’s Quarries and the hard toil they experienced in stamping on them, day after day, the devices of the 7th Dublins in the form of trenches. By night and day they built and occupied them, and weary work it was’. (Henry Hanna, The Pals at Suvla Bay, Ponsonby 1917, p. 28)

 ‘Flanagan’s Quarry, about five miles from the barracks, was acquired for the purpose of trench digging, and thither we wended our way almost daily to labour on an elaborate system (or so it seemed to us of trenches and dugouts there laid out.’ (Frank M. Laird, Personal Experiences of the Great War, Eason 1925, p.15)

Any assistance would be appreciated and will be duly acknowledged.

Thanks,

Dave

 

 

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Not about the quarries but these might be of use-The Irish Times, September 13, 1921. Roll of Honour. In Memoriam. Ball-In proud and loving memory of Fred Ball, D Company, 7th R.D.F., and Royal Botanic Gardens, Glasnevin, died of wounds, Suvla Bay, September 13, 1915. Date of birth 13/09/1879. Began working in the Botanic Gardens on 10/12/1906. This man is listed, with a short biography and image on page 158, in “The Pal's At Suvla Bay,” by Henry Hanna, K.C. Published by E Ponsonby Ltd, 116 Grafton Street, Dublin. (1916). Evening Herald. 02/10/1915. Mr C F Ball.-The death is reported from the Dardanelles of Mr F C Ball, who was killed in action. He was one of the best known botanists and horticulturists in Ireland, and held the position of Assistant Keeper to Sir F W Moore at the Royal Botanical Gardens, Glasnevin. On the outbreak of war he volunteered for service and joined the D (Pals) Company of the 7th Royal Dublin Fusiliers. Mr Ball, who was married only last December, was keenly devoted to his profession, and quite recently the collection at the Royal Botanical Gardens was enriched by a consignment of plants which he sent home from the Dardanelles to Sir F W Moore. He was a popular member of the Finglas Golf Club, another member of which, Mr John Boyd, was reported missing a short time ago.

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As far as I am aware, the RDF trench training was at Phoenix Park. Trying to avoid people quoting me. try

https://comeheretome.com/2013/05/20/phoenix-park-wwi-trenches/

But Phoenix Park was not alive with quarries at that time!

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And a reference here for practice trenches

 

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Thanks for those chaps. I've actually visited those two practice trench locations and indeed there are no quarries anywhere near them!

It also struck me that a quarry would be an unlikely location to use for practice trench digging - unless the task of digging in Gallipoli needed a rocky substrate at home to practice on. 

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The quarries in the Phoenix Park have been artificial ponds for many years.

Given the vague distance from Dublin, looking northwards I doubt it'd have been a corrupted reference to Feltrim. Looking south I doubt that Dalkey quarry or to Blessington would be close enough either.

In the circumstances Clondalkin looks the best bet. However, perhaps check with rock climbing organisations re Dalkey, for they might have an insight into local names?

One outlandish reimagining could be that the troops weren't building practice trenches at all but were loaned for sapper-type work in making test trenches for archaeological or geological survey work as part of their trench training.

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Hi all,

Got access to newspaper archives and historical mapping and I've unearthed some clues.

An article from the Freeman's Journal of the 20th of May 1899 describes the drowning of a local man at Flanagan's Quarry.

Freemans_May20_1899.jpg.8a87e31c28f379887587ff91de1438ea.jpg

The body was taken to his home in Fox and Geese Townland in Clondalkin. A very small area that coincidentally contained a group of quarries (underlined). For those who know the area, the circle marks where the Red Cow Interchange is today.

FG.jpg.b738e270e744110c126801ed18923b3e.jpg

All of the quarries unfortunately have been obliterated by industrial estates.

Thanks for the contributions.

Dave

 

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15 hours ago, depaor01 said:

Hi all,

Got access to newspaper archives and historical mapping and I've unearthed some clues.

An article from the Freeman's Journal of the 20th of May 1899 describes the drowning of a local man at Flanagan's Quarry.

Freemans_May20_1899.jpg.8a87e31c28f379887587ff91de1438ea.jpg

The body was taken to his home in Fox and Geese Townland in Clondalkin. A very small area that coincidentally contained a group of quarries (underlined). For those who know the area, the circle marks where the Red Cow Interchange is today.

FG.jpg.b738e270e744110c126801ed18923b3e.jpg

All of the quarries unfortunately have been obliterated by industrial estates.

Thanks for the contributions.

Dave

 

Brilliant detective work Dave, I’ve followed this thread with interest and I think that local newspaper mention is a clincher for confirming a Clondalkin location.

Edited by FROGSMILE
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Thank you indeed.

I hoped to see some telltale zig zags on the few remaining green patches there using Google Earth. No luck. Maybe asking too much!

Dave

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9 minutes ago, depaor01 said:

Thank you indeed.

I hoped to see some telltale zig zags on the few remaining green patches there using Google Earth. No luck. Maybe asking too much!

Dave

If the quarry became active again after WW1, which on the face of it seems likely, then presumably the areas that contained the trenches will have been excavated to provide material for roads and housing post war. 

Edited by FROGSMILE
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4 hours ago, FROGSMILE said:

If the quarry became active again after WW1, which on the face of it seems likely, then presumably the areas that contained the trenches will have been excavated to provide material for roads and housing post war. 

More than possible. The area has been severely built-over.

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1 minute ago, depaor01 said:

More than possible. The area has been severely built-over.

I wonder if they unwittingly have company dugout’s beneath their dining rooms!

Edited by FROGSMILE
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8 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said:

I wonder if they unwittingly have company dugout’s beneath their dining rooms!

:lol:

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On 06/01/2022 at 15:40, depaor01 said:

Afternoon all,

I had a query in about the above location and have searched in vain for references - maybe someone here can help.

The enquirer is writing a book about Charles Frederick Ball (1879-1915), Assistant Keeper at the Botanic Gardens, Glasnevin, Dublin who was killed at Gallipoli.

He enlisted with the 7th Battalion, Royal Dublin Fusiliers. When they were based in the Royal Barracks, Dublin, early in 1915, before being sent overseas. It was reported that they spent a lot of time practising trench digging at ‘Flanagan’s Quarry’, about five miles outside Dublin, although the reports do not specify where this was. It is thought (but not certain) the quarries might have been in Clondalkin.

Dave

 

 

I'm in the middle of reading the book about Frank Laird and just sent a copy to Dublin this morning. Sent off for the book after seeing an interview with Carol Hope on the Great War Huts youtube channel.

I'd picked up on the quarry being mentioned and had a look at the Dublin maps on Shane Wilson's site but with no luck. Great to see that you tracked it down,

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8 minutes ago, doyle3 said:

I'm in the middle of reading the book about Frank Laird and just sent a copy to Dublin this morning. Sent off for the book after seeing an interview with Carol Hope on the Great War Huts youtube channel.

I'd picked up on the quarry being mentioned and had a look at the Dublin maps on Shane Wilson's site but with no luck. Great to see that you tracked it down,

Glad to be of service!

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On the military theme, the keener-eyed will have seen Dr Patrick Joseph Garland and his wife Irene (a Kiwi) being recorded as resident in Quarryvale in the Irish Census 1911.

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Dublin/Palmerstown/Quarryvale/41734/ 

Two of the brothers had been born by that stage. (Four were to die in WWII, most famously Donald, VC).

Quarryvale townland:

https://www.townlands.ie/dublin/uppercross/palmerston/palmerstown-ed-1901/quarryvale/ 

Dr Garland had become a companion/appointed to the CMG in 1909 for combatting an outbreak of plague in the Gold Coast (Ghana).

https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/28263/supplement/4855

I think he was serving in the Wicklow district as a medical practitioner in WWI, hence Donald's birth there. Consequently Dr Garland didn't see active service in WWI.

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When I was stationed in Collins Barracks (The Royal Barracks) we done rock climbing in Dalkey Quarry, would that fit the bill?

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44 minutes ago, museumtom said:

When I was stationed in Collins Barracks (The Royal Barracks) we done rock climbing in Dalkey Quarry, would that fit the bill?

Hi Tom,

That's been suggested above, but Dalkey would be more than five miles from Collins.

Dave

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