Captain D S W Hambly

[thedawnpatrol]

I have this chaps medals, can anyone tell me anything about him ? His Squadron if possible 

thank you

 

[PRC]

There is an AIR76 record for a Donald Stewart Wharton Hambly, but it shows him born 8th March 1865, so he was going some if he served in WW2 as well.

It can be downloaded for free from the National Archive here if you sign in. https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D8268325

In the preview I'm seeing reference to being ex.R.N.A.S, and with previous military experience . Looks like he was doing work on the Technical side and there are references to Dunkirk, Felixstowe and 11 Aircraft Park.

The National Archive also lists a Naval Officer record for the same man, which is also digitised and can currently be downloaded for free. https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C9749623

Cheers,
Peter

[thedawnpatrol]

thank you Peter,

ive looked at both those records, interesting, but confusing..........? appears to have been refused a commission in the RNAS but i cant see the conection with RFC / RAF if there is one ? 

also, how does a stores officer get awarded a Croix de Guerre ? 

 

cheers

 

 

Julian.

[thedawnpatrol]

ah, just found this on the web.............appears he died in 1930...............so not his WW2 medals !

https://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/education/resources/letters-first-world-war-1916-18/naval-station-dozen-search-lights/

 

 

[The Inspector]

Hi All,

His correct name is Donald STEWARD Wharton Hambly. Family tree here....https://www.ancestry.co.uk/family-tree/person/tree/49476986/person/12988366882/facts

Regards Barry

[PRC]

3 hours ago, thedawnpatrol said:

ive looked at both those records, interesting, but confusing..........? appears to have been refused a commission in the RNAS but i cant see the conection with RFC / RAF if there is one ? 

Was trying not to download those records as my hard drive is getting very full but you intrigued me as I was seeing something different in the preview records.

So combining the two for, as @The Inspector quite rightly points out. Donald Steward Wharton Hambly, the timeline looks like:-

1898 – 1905 – Served as a Lieutenant with the 2nd Battalion South Middlesex Volunteer Rifle Corps.

July 1916. Passed as medically fit for service. Was previously a Railway Accountant working in the Railway Office of the  Great Western Railway Company at Paddington.

11th August 1916. Joined the Royal Naval Air Service as a Temporary Warrant Officer 2 for Stores duties.

16th August 1916. Posted Felixstowe.

19th October 1916. Posted East Fortune.

24th October 1916. Posted Dover – Stores duties.

29th September 1917 S.O. Dunkirk to report as to whether this officer is considered suitable for a commission.

18th October 1917 Promotion to go-ahead and to be re-appointed to Dunkirk.

24th November 1917. Commissioned Temporary Lieutenant R.N.V.R. for service with the R.N.A.S.

1st April 1918. Transferred to the R.A.F. ex Lieutenant R.N.V.R. attached R.N.A.S. Stationed R.A.F. Stores Depot, Dunkirk.To be Lieutenant (Temporary Captain)

Late 1918. Moved to 11 Aircraft Park, (order dated 7th November 1918).

6th May 1919. Moved to the Home Establishment.

7th May 1919. Transferred to the Unemployed List.

5th June 1919. Mentioned in despatches.

15th July 1919. London Gazette (Page 8987). Awarded the Croix de Guerre (Belgian).

3 hours ago, thedawnpatrol said:

also, how does a stores officer get awarded a Croix de Guerre ?

Probably from the batch of awards that each of the allies allocated to the other, leaving the recipient ally to decide the criteria for the award to individuals. He possibly warranted something more than a M.I.D. but less than the other gallantry medals available, so the Belgian Croix De Guerre was a nice compromise, a reward for sustained performance above and beyond the standard expected.

Cheers,
Peter

[thedawnpatrol]

Thank you Peter, I could not ask for better......that's great 

really appreciated 

best

julian 

[PRC]

The 1911 Census of England & Wales shows that Donald Steward Wharton and his wife Emily Caroline Hambly have been married 12 years and have had 2 children, one of whom has died. The other was the 11 year old Donald Montague Hambly, born Ealing and a student.

There is an AIR76 record for a Donald Montague Hambly who was born 31st July 1899. Home address was 11 Mostyn Avenue, Wembly - the same address as appears on the records for Donald Steward Wharton Hambly. Sent out to the B.E.F. on the 25th May 1918, he was a Camel Pilot with 3 Squadron. He survived the war but seems to have been invalided back to the UK in January 1919. There may well be more in the record - I'm just working from the preview version.

Entry in the National Archive catalogure is here: https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D8268324

He turns up on the 1932 Indian Army List as a Lieutenant with the 2nd Battalion, The North Western Railway Regiment, his commission dating from the 4th August 1917.

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=ZDQppNKcfzIC&pg=PA469&lpg=PA469&dq=Donald+Montague+Hambly&source=bl&ots=-IgUivdZif&sig=ACfU3U1LFXe62ARUGepzDmxy0EAiBsAdCA&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiosI7rqZv1AhXRSsAKHWFEAjUQ6AF6BAgPEAM#v=onepage&q=Donald Montague Hambly&f=false

The death of a Donald Montague Hambly, born 31st July 1899, was recorded in the North Devon District in the January to March quarter, (Q1), of 1984.

The 1984 Probate Calendar shows that Donald Montague Hambley, of Greystones, Yetminster, Sherborne, Dorset, died on the 4th January 1984. https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/Calendar?surname=Hambly&yearOfDeath=1984#calendar

So possibly the WW2 medals are his.

Cheers,
Peter

 

 

[thedawnpatrol]

16 hours ago, PRC said:

The 1911 Census of England & Wales shows that Donald Steward Wharton and his wife Emily Caroline Hambly have been married 12 years and have had 2 children, one of whom has died. The other was the 11 year old Donald Montague Hambly, born Ealing and a student.

There is an AIR76 record for a Donald Montague Hambly who was born 31st July 1899. Home address was 11 Mostyn Avenue, Wembly - the same address as appears on the records for Donald Steward Wharton Hambly. Sent out to the B.E.F. on the 25th May 1918, he was a Camel Pilot with 3 Squadron. He survived the war but seems to have been invalided back to the UK in January 1919. There may well be more in the record - I'm just working from the preview version.

Entry in the National Archive catalogure is here: https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D8268324

He turns up on the 1932 Indian Army List as a Lieutenant with the 2nd Battalion, The North Western Railway Regiment, his commission dating from the 4th August 1917.

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=ZDQppNKcfzIC&pg=PA469&lpg=PA469&dq=Donald+Montague+Hambly&source=bl&ots=-IgUivdZif&sig=ACfU3U1LFXe62ARUGepzDmxy0EAiBsAdCA&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiosI7rqZv1AhXRSsAKHWFEAjUQ6AF6BAgPEAM#v=onepage&q=Donald Montague Hambly&f=false

The death of a Donald Montague Hambly, born 31st July 1899, was recorded in the North Devon District in the January to March quarter, (Q1), of 1984.

The 1984 Probate Calendar shows that Donald Montague Hambley, of Greystones, Yetminster, Sherborne, Dorset, died on the 4th January 1984. https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/Calendar?surname=Hambly&yearOfDeath=1984#calendar

So possibly the WW2 medals are his.

Cheers,
Peter

 

 

Thank you Peter..................as it turns out i have Donald Montague's medals and Log book also...................

Donald flew Camels with 3 Squadron in 1918 as you state.

[thedawnpatrol]

Just to round up this thread, here is some photos of both sets of medals, and Donald Montague's Log book

 

Look at the inscriptions on the back of his WW2 medals......

 

[charlie962]

Excellent collection.

Even the simple North Western Railway Battalion shoulder title is rare, I think. Nice to have it with the TD. AFI is Auxiliary Forces India, their TF equivalent.

I assume the unusual naming on the back of the ww2 stars is RIE for Royal Indian Engineers?

Charlie

[thedawnpatrol]

Thanks Charlie, I did not know what the RIE stood for.......

[Tawhiri]

On 05/01/2022 at 14:39, PRC said:

The 1911 Census of England & Wales shows that Donald Steward Wharton and his wife Emily Caroline Hambly have been married 12 years and have had 2 children, one of whom has died.

Interesting that the second child is noted as having died, as in the letter at the link posted by thedawnpatrol on January 5, Donald S. mentions getting 48 hours leave to attend his daughter's wedding, with her and her husband then leaving for India. Given the letter is dated 21 September 1916, the date of his daughter's marriage must have been 23 August 1916. Somebody born after 1911 would hardly be getting married in 1916, so given how long Donald S and his wife had been married in 1911 and his birth year, I wonder if there was an earlier marriage with children of that marriage.

Edited 2 February , 2022 by Tawhiri

[PRC]

14 minutes ago, Tawhiri said:

Interesting that the second child is noted as having died, as in the letter at the link posted by thedawnpatrol on January 5, Donald S. mentions getting 48 hours leave to attend his daughter's wedding, with her and her husband then leaving for India. Given the letter is dated 21 September 1916, the date of his daughter's marriage must have been 23 August 1916. Somebody born after 1911 would hardly be getting married in 1916, so given how long Donald S and his wife had been married in 1911 and his birth year, I wonder if there was an earlier marriage with children of that marriage.

As he had been married 12 years by 1911, there is no great surprise that he was living with the same wife on the 1901 Census of England & Wales. The only child living with them, at 24 Bradley Gardens, Ealing, was the 1 year old Donald M. So no children from a previous marriage there.

And going back to the 1891 Census of England & Wales the 26 year old Donald S W. Hambley, a Bank Clerk living in the household of his maiden aunt, Lucretia Hambley, at 35 Cornwall Road, Paddington, was unmarried.

In the Brentford District of Middlesex in Q3 1894 a Donald S W Hambly married either a Nellie Ryde or a Katherine Elizabeth Ferry. The published index didn't cross reference who married who, but those are the only two brides on the same page of the register.

The death of a Katherine Elizabeth Hambly, aged 30, was recorded in the Brentford District in the April to June quarter, (Q2), of 1897.

May be a co-incidence but the birth of a Phyllis Mary Hambly, mothers' maiden name Ferry, was registered in the Uxbridge District of Middlesex in Q3 1895.

On the 1901 Census of England & Wales, a 5 year old Phyllis M. Hambly, born "Southend, London, Middlesex", was recorded as a visitor in the household of a William and Mary Clogg, who were living in Battersea. William was a Clerk to the Civil Service Stores.

By the time of the 1911 Census of England & Wales the 15 year old Phyllis Mary Hambley was recorded living with father Donald and her step-mother. (Apologies for the lack of joined up thinking!)

The marriage of a Phyllis "N" Hambly, to a John Coldstream was recorded in the Kensington District of London in the July to September quarter, (Q3), of 1916.

Cheers,
Peter

[Tawhiri]

39 minutes ago, PRC said:

By the time of the 1911 Census of England & Wales the 15 year old Phyllis Mary Hambley was recorded living with father Donald and her step-mother. (Apologies for the lack of joined up thinking!)

Peter, your thinking is clear, as always. Unfortunately I lost my online access to the library version of Ancestry at the end of last year, so am unable to check the 1911 England and Wales census, but I presume that this means she was also included on the same census return as 11-year old Donald M., but just not mentioned in your original response on January 5. 

[PRC]

2 hours ago, Tawhiri said:

Unfortunately I lost my online access to the library version of Ancestry at the end of last year, so am unable to check the 1911 England and Wales census,

Commiserations - I lost home access to FMP Library edition mid December and after nearly 20 months of such indulgent luxury I feel quite bereft. Trouble is it's probably not a good idea to sell more than one kidney

2 hours ago, Tawhiri said:

I presume that this means she was also included on the same census return as 11-year old Donald M., but just not mentioned in your original response on January 5. 

Quite correct.

Image courtesy Genes Reunited.

@thedawnpatrol - should you want it, that also gives you Donald seniors' autograph.

Cheers,
Peter

[thedawnpatrol]

thank you both, very interesting. but what about finding a photo of Donald Montague Hambly...............

[Tawhiri]

I did do a search on Google for Donald Montague Hambly, and it produced this message from 2016 left on a website dedicated to the Harrow County School for Boys, now the Harrow High School.

Quote

The above D M Hambly was my grandfather. Apart from being an Engineer for the Indian State Railway where he was designing and building bridges and tunnels, mostly in the NOrth West in what is now West Pakistan. I have 2 of his prizes, Treasure Island which he won in July 1912 which states he was Head Boy. Also for 1912 a prize for Mathematics, III Prize I think and same for the Head Boy prize. I didn't know he had been Head Boy. I knew him very well. He was also in the RFC and caught the tail end of the 1st WWar I think. His father Donald Steward Wharton Hambly was also in the RFC. If you have anything to add to this I would be very grateful. What he did at school. I don't get the impression he was'nt sporty but maybe wrong; more academic. do you have any photos of him ? He got his degree in Engineering from King's College, London or it might have been University College.

Happy to pm you the name and e-mail address of the writer, although it sounds as though she may not have any photos of him either.

Edited to add that given that Donald Montague Hambly was a foundation pupil of Harrow County School for Boys in 1911, it's highly likely that he is one of the school boys in this photo.

http://www.jeffreymaynard.com/Harrow_County/WholeSchool 1911.htm

 

Edited 3 February , 2022 by Tawhiri

[thedawnpatrol]

Thank you Tawhiri that's really interesting 

[Caroline Kernan]

D S W Hambly was my great grandfather and Donald Hambly was my grandfather.  Fascinated to see his familiar hand in his logbook.  I wonder when this left the family and his medals too.  Would be fascinated to know how you came by them.

sincerely

Caroline Kernan

Donald Montague Hambly was the first Headboy at Harrow County Grammar School.  I have his school prizes.

[Caroline Kernan]

Please feel free to email me.  I see I posted something in 2016 but never followed up.  I happen to have photos of both of them if you would like to get in touch

[Caroline Kernan]

Donald Stewart Wharton Hambly was married 3 times his first wife, Kitty Ferry was mother to Phyllis Hambly who married Sir John Coldstream.  His second marriage was to Emily Caroline Davies who was mother to my grandfather Donald Montague Hambly.  Both these wives pre-deceased him.  He married thirdly Flora.  As I said you can email me which would make life much easier .  

[Michelle Young]

13 minutes ago, Caroline Kernan said:

Please feel free to email me.  I see I posted something in 2016 but never followed up.  I happen to have photos of both of them if you would like to get in touch

What was your username then, perhaps as you didn’t follow up, your account got deleted. As you are probably aware from the rules, dual membership isn’t allowed, so we may have to merge your accounts.

[Caroline Kernan]

 As far as I know I've never been on this blog before.  The first information was lifted from something I sent re my grandfather at Harrow Grammar.  I have a photo of my great  grandfather in RNAS uniform I think.  I also have a photo of my grandfather in No 3 Squadron.  This can also be found in a book called three's Company An Illustrated History of No 3 (Fighter) Squadron RAF by Jack T C Long published by Pen and Sword 2005 .  Hope this helps.

[PRC]

Hello @Caroline Kernan and welcome to the forum.

Can I take it that it was you that posted the piece on the Harrow High School website in 2016?

I'm sure @thedawnpatrol will be along soon to pick up on your comments - thank you for taking the time to post

Cheers,
Peter