Gas at Mametz Wood?

[Shmorganzola]

Dear Wise Ones,

I'm trying to write a detailed version of my Grt-Grandfather's experience of Mametz Wood (7-11th July 1916). He was in the 11th South Wales Borderers (A Coy) and was captured as a POW on the 11th (L/Cpl William Morgan, 22444). He was released back to the UK after the Armistice, having been hospitalized in Aachen ('sick' but no details).

Family folklore maintains that he suffered long-term from being gassed. Am trying to substantiate this.

Question: I've looked at books (by Llewellyn Wyn Griffiths, David Jones, and Jonathan Hicks) and the War Diaries of the 11th SWB and 115th Bde but may have missed details on which day(s) there was gas. Or was gassing so 'run-of-the-mill' that this would not be recorded? Anyone seen any personal accounts?

Thanks for any advice.

 

 

[ss002d6252]

A further possibility is that he was gassed on another occasion and that he simply attributed later bad health to that, whilst not suffering badly at the time of the gassing.

What is his name and number ?

Craig

[Shmorganzola]

Craig, thanks for the prompt reply, and fair point it could be another time.

His name and number were included in the post . Must say he was in a very quiet sector with hardly any action in the previous 6 months.

Thanks.

[Matlock1418]

7 minutes ago, Shmorganzola said:

L/Cpl William Morgan, 22444

Has a MIC recording a 1914-15 Trio, France 4/12/15, and discharged to Army Z Reserve 17/2/19 - but couldn't find any pension claim card(s) at WFA/Fold3

M

Edited 3 January , 2022 by Matlock1418

[ss002d6252]

1 minute ago, Shmorganzola said:

Craig, thanks for the prompt reply, and fair point it could be another time.

His name and number were included in the post . Must say he was in a very quiet sector with hardly any action in the previous 6 months.

Thanks.

I read right past them !  I blame being up most of the night (sending the wife on a Caribbean cruise is stressful !).

Craig

[Matlock1418]

Just now, ss002d6252 said:

(sending the wife on a Caribbean cruise is stressful !).

Jamaica? ;-)

M

[Shmorganzola]

1 minute ago, Matlock1418 said:

Has a MIC recording a 1914-15 Trio, France 4/12/15, and discharged to Army Z Reserve 17/2/19 - but couldn't find any pension claim card(s) at WFA/Fold3

M

Thanks Matlock for due diligence, I (think) I have all the docs that can be found on him (including CWGC POW). I have not found any Pension on WFA either .

Jamaica ! 

[ss002d6252]

Just now, Matlock1418 said:

Jamaica? ;-)

M

She went voluntarily, this time.

I can't currently see any obvious casualty reports for Morgan in the papers.

Craig

[Shmorganzola]

4 minutes ago, ss002d6252 said:

I read right past them !  I blame being up most of the night (sending the wife on a Caribbean cruise is stressful !).

Craig

Entirely understandably when you are probably reading scores at a time. Don't look at the credit card bill !

[TEW]

He is on an official Casualty List: Daily List of 13/9/16 wounded and missing. Then a POW list dated  25/10/16 noting he had previously been posted wounded and missing.

TEW

[Shmorganzola]

Just now, ss002d6252 said:

She went voluntarily, this time.

I can't currently see any obvious casualty reports for Morgan in the papers.

Craig

Thanks! Actually, there are listings in on the BNA newspapers (wounded, POW etc), but nothing specific about gassing. Great thought.

1 minute ago, TEW said:

He is on an official Casualty List: Daily List of 13/9/16 wounded and missing. Then a POW list dated  25/10/16 noting he had previously been posted wounded and missing.

TEW

Thanks so much TEW, you are absolutely right.  Best wishes.

[ss002d6252]

3 minutes ago, TEW said:

He is on an official Casualty List: Daily List of 13/9/16 wounded and missing. Then a POW list dated  25/10/16 noting he had previously been posted wounded and missing.

TEW

Yeah, just spotted him at the same point as you posted.
 

25 Oct 16

 

EDIT:
Crossed with your post

Craig

[Shmorganzola]

1 minute ago, ss002d6252 said:

Yeah, just spotted him at the same point as you posted.
 

25 Oct 16

 

EDIT:
Crossed with your post

Craig

Thanks gents.

 

[kenf48]

His POW Record (PA17750) shows 'nicht verwundet' i.e. Not wounded.

As you say neither Battalion of the SWB engaged at Mametz had been heavily engaged prior to the battle, though allowance has to be made for some attritional casualties, including two heavy bombardments on the 11th Battalion when they were in the line in May. (Interestingly they blamed the 10th for 'annoying' the Germans with a raid !)

The use of gas in the attack at Mametz would have been very unwise by either side given the proximity of the fighting and the unpredictable consequences.  Whilst the British preferred 'cloud attacks' the Germans preferred to use shells but these were not available in any great numbers in July 1916.  Initially they used lacrymator substances (e.g.tear gas).  It was a relatively effective form of delivery that evolved throughout the war but not on July 11 at Mametz.  As more and different shells became available the Germans more or less abandoned 'cloud attacks'; their greatest innovation was mustard gas but again not until 1917.

It seems more likely his capture was due to 'the fog of war' as you are probably aware by 9pm on the 11th his Battalion was cut off and had to fall back some 300 yards from the Northern edge of the wood.  The thickness of the wood, the condition of the ground following heavy rain as night was coming on and the confusion of a hasty retreat probably meant he  became isolated from the main body and was captured.

The POWs suffered the same hardships and deprivation as the German civilian population and when released suffered from malnutrition and associated debilitating sickness, including respiratory diseases, which would spread in the camps, and evidenced by his later transfer to Aachen.

Family folk lore often has an element of truth, it was said of one of my great uncles that his hair, 'turned white overnight after Mametz'.  A physical impossibility but what was certain after the experience he never worked again, was cared for by his sister until she died and shortly after her death in 1950 killed himself in the mental asylum to which he had been committed.  I acknowledge we can never prove cause and effect, but...

[brianmorris547]

There are some references in the WD of 2 Bn RE Special Brigade 05/07/1916 that Capt Thomas was preparing for a gas attack on Mametz Wood but it was abandoned. Capt Thomas then  assisted No 3 Co of 5 Bn SB who were to make a smoke barrage. The WD of 5 Bn RE SB records that smoke was discharged on Mametz Wood on 07/07/1916 and 10/07/1916. 

Brian