Henry Major Jones, 26729, 2nd Garrison Battalion, Northumberland Fusiliers

[Tony Jones]

This is my grandfather who served 1916-1920. I believe that he enlisted in the Bedfordshire Regiment as a Derby Boy in 1916 & trained at Landguard in  1916.  I have a photo of him in a group from Hut Z.9 dated 17-5-16.  I think he was switched to Northumberland Fusiliers as soon as his training finished as there is nothing to tie him to the Beds Regiment apart from a cap badge.  I have various artifacts, 2 medals (Mutt & Jeff), a metal ID (probably a mid eastern coin) with his rank etc engraved on it & some photos in uniform.  He finished with a rank of Sgt according to his ID (or Acting Sgt according to the official records).  Judging by his photo album (96 off 3" x 2" pictures) he spent much of his time in Mesopotamia although there are a few photos taken when, according to the notes, he was on leave in Northern India in August 1918.  Some photos from Mesopotamia that include him have men from other regiments in them as far as I can make out the badges.  There are another 24 photos (6" x 4") of scenes in Mesopotamia with hand written descriptions on the back.

If anyone can help to see what he may have been doing during his service it would be much appreciated.

Tony

[HERITAGE PLUS]

Tony

This previous thread will give you a starter.

https://www.greatwarforum.org/topic/108558-2nd-garrison-btn-northumberland-fusiliers/

Dave

Edited 1 January , 2022 by HERITAGE PLUS

[kenf48]

Based on surviving service records he appears to be one of a number of men transferred to the 2nd Garrison Battalion NF on the 5th April 1917 in India.

They embarked from Bombay on the 7th April 1917, on the Elephanta and disembarked Basrah on the 15th April.

26709 Bridgewood was previously with the 1st Garrison Battalion Bedfordshire and may be the connection you are seeking.

26719 formerly 8th Bn Royal Fusiliers transferred to RE 347169

A number from the 1st GB Yorkshire Regiment including 26769 Burton who was attached to the RE IWT workshop in Basrah before being transferred to the RE 554425

There is an interesting fragment on FMP indexed under 26712 Hayes, it is a return of sick from York Record Office and lists seven soldiers from the 2nd GB NF, each one was attached to a different unit.

 It appears the men were dispersed on arrival in Mesopotamia and given a variety of duties and attachments in theatre outside the usual chain of command.  Your photographs may offer a clue as to where Pte Jones served.

Bridgewood’s record shows he returned to India on leave on the 26 July 1918, he did not return to Mesopotamia and was struck off the strength of the Mes. Expeditionary Force on 26 October 1918, embarking for home from Bombay on the 29th January.  There is also the caveat not to rely on one record but Pte. Jones service seems to parallel that of Pte Bridgewood who enlisted on the 9th October 1915

 

 

[charlie962]

15 minutes ago, kenf48 said:

It appears the men were dispersed on arrival in Mesopotamia and given a variety of duties and attachments in theatre

Including Baghdad

[kenf48]

The OP has provided some information as to Pte Jones postings on this thread

Most of those mentioned above suffered from malaria, it is as yet unclear whether or not the hospital locations were due to sickness or were attachments, I suspect most likely the former.

[Tony Jones]

The family story is my grandfather was deferred initially because of some medical problem but that's supposition now.  He was in service as a Footman in 1911 for Sir Francis Gore living at 46 Egerton Gdns London & whether this sort of connection allowed him to avoid the initial push to sign up who knows.  He certainly did his training in mid1916 as I have a copy of a photo with 22 men which has "Derby Boys" Hut Z.9, Landguard, 17-5-16 written on it.  Training was probably as part of the Bedfordshire regiment as my grandmother came from Clophill, Beds.

I have attached photos of his ID badge which must have made in the field & dont know when he was made Sgt (or A/Sgt on official docs).  I haven't tried to identify the coin assuming it is one.  I will scan & post some other photos but I'm having to be careful with the album which wasn't expected to last this long I'm sure.

[The Inspector]

Hi All,

Is the monument  on the coin the Charminar in Hyderabad, India? Silver one Rupee. EDIT  2 Annas Mir Osman Ali Khan

https://www.puredestinations.co.uk/top-10-famous-monuments-to-visit-in-india/

Regards Barry.

Edited 5 January , 2022 by The Inspector

[FROGSMILE]

It’s a silver Rupee coin, but it’s unclear what denomination, as the face was common in various sizes but different obverse’s.  It’s a coinage familiar to generations of British soldiers.

Edited 5 January , 2022 by FROGSMILE

[The Inspector]

Hi Frogsmile and all,

I think the coin you have posted is a Silver Rupee whereas the one I have posted and the original is an " Anna". Note the different "Letter?" in the centre of the gate.?

No doubt someone will be able to read the "lettering", I certainly can't!

Regards Barry

[FROGSMILE]

3 minutes ago, The Inspector said:

Hi Frogsmile and all,

I think the coin you have posted is a Silver Rupee whereas the one I have posted and the original is an " Anna". Note the different "Letter?" in the centre of the gate.?

No doubt someone will be able to read the "lettering", I certainly can't!

Regards Barry

Yes it’s a One Rupee coin with the central symbol like a stylised E.

[The Inspector]

Hi Frogsmile and all, 

I think this site explains it better than I ever could!!

https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces15702.html

Regards Barry

[charlie962]

19 minutes ago, The Inspector said:

site explains

Dates coin as 1330 which seems to equate to 1912 ?

[Tony Jones]

Just to expand on my reply under the 2nd Garr Batt thread about my gfathers photo album. 

Although a Londoner he had met & married my gmother (that's another story altogether!) who came from Clophill, a small Bedfordshire village.  His father-in-law was in the Navy until 1905 & served in many ships around the world & obviously came back with stories of his experiences.  I only have official Navy photos from then & I think my gfather wanted to be able to show his experiences in WW1 to those who wouldn't ever see the Middle East & India.  That is why, I think, the album has so much of a "touristy" feel to it. 

Only a few years previous to WW1, cousins of my gmother had decided to emigrate to Canada from Clophill & when the children were told they were going on a boat they didn't want that but wanted to travel by the carrier's cart.  It shows how small their world was, where, for a longer journey that you couldn't walk you used the carrier's cart.  Canada was beyond any comprehension of their normal world.

Tony

[charlie962]

It will be interesting to see the photo descriptions as well as the photos you are posting on the 2GBNF topic. As well as highlighting scenes in Mespot it will give possible clues re your GF's activities. From other service records, i have seen 2GBNF men as well as other soldier's being attached to prisoner of war camps, often as supervisors of working parties as well as admin or guard duties.

The few descriptions and photos shared so far include PoWs, a troopship at, I think, Basra and the 79thCarnatics all suggest garrison and pow duties Basra, I am thinking..but..

Location of 3BGH and 9IGH should be tied down- I will have a look if someone else hasn't already the info.

Charlie

Edit..Beit Nama and 3BGH were also Basra

 

 

 

Edited 6 January , 2022 by charlie962

[charlie962]

Worth looking at the photos by Pte Monks on grandadswar.org as they probably compliment your GF's photos and the site owner has done some good write-ups.

Tanouma was also on the Tigris, opposite Basra.

The site I linked belongs, I think, to forum member @PJS who did a lot of research on medical aspect of Mespot and I am sure would be fascinated to compare photos.

Edited 6 January , 2022 by charlie962

[kenf48]

17 hours ago, Tony Jones said:

The family story is my grandfather was deferred initially because of some medical problem but that's supposition now.  He was in service as a Footman in 1911 for Sir Francis Gore living at 46 Egerton Gdns London & whether this sort of connection allowed him to avoid the initial push to sign up who knows. 

In August 1914 many servants were encouraged by their employers to enlist, some offered bribes, others threats though neither were often needed for young men wanting to escape the drudgery of their every day lives.  Although medical examinations were at best cursory in the first few months of the war there were common causes for rejection which may not have been immediately obvious, for example flat feet.  When it was realised the war would not be ‘over by Christmas’ it became a necessity for Category A men to be released for active duty by engaging men in the New Armies who were initially deemed to be unfit for front line service.

I assume you have read the Long Long Trail page on the Derby or Group Scheme.

https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/soldiers/a-soldiers-life-1914-1918/enlisting-into-the-army/the-group-scheme-derby-scheme/

His age and marital status will offer a clue as to which Group he was in for mobilisation. He could seek deferment from the Local Tribunal but given the May date for the camp photographs that seems unlikely. The Scheme was  last gasp of the voluntary period, and was largely a failure on many counts, not least the fitness of those who attested. The Military Service Act in January 1916 introduced universal conscription and ended the voluntary period.

He was clearly in Fitness Category B https://eehe.org.uk/?p=25030   Hence his initial posting to, in all likelihood,to one of the Garrison Battalions of the Bedfordshire Regiment and subsequently service in India.  Outside of India the men in the Garrison Battalions at Home were subject to frequent medical review and many found themselves in front line units, especially after the manpower crisis of 1917.

[PJS]

51 minutes ago, charlie962 said:

Worth looking at the photos by Pte Monks on grandadswar.org as they probably compliment your GF's photos and the site owner has done some good write-ups.

Tanouma was also on the Tigris, opposite Basra.

The site I linked belongs, I think, to forum member @PJS who did a lot of research on medical aspect of Mespot and I am sure would be fascinated to compare photos.

Guilty. 

 

Charlie, you referenced the Beit Nama Officers' Convalescent Hospital above and so here are a couple of images (one upstream and one downstream) of it that are not yet posted to the web site in case they are of interest to anyone:

Peter

[charlie962]

28 minutes ago, PJS said:

Guilty. 

Peter,

I recognised the photo of Monks!

I think Tony is posting some of his photos on the general topic named 2nd (Garrison) Battalion Northumberland Fusiliers

 

Edited 6 January , 2022 by charlie962

[Tony Jones]

2 hours ago, charlie962 said:

Worth looking at the photos by Pte Monks on grandadswar.org as they probably compliment your GF's photos and the site owner has done some good write-ups.

Tanouma was also on the Tigris, opposite Basra.

The site I linked belongs, I think, to forum member @PJS who did a lot of research on medical aspect of Mespot and I am sure would be fascinated to compare photos.

There do seem to be similarities in those photos - perhaps the word went round about good vantage spots

This is my Gfather but I dont think this is Fusilier uniform.  There isnt an awful lot to go on apart from the helmet